Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Been a longtime fan of the idea of seeing those hulls in form of combat support and unorthodox warfare.
Guess it is too whatever.


I do hope though that they get the necessary hitpoints beef, because they are way too paperlike (and I really don't care how much "awesome tank" one has done over this time, if any).

Limiting the criteria to just three: speed, tank, and hold doesn't offer the needed differentiation inside each race and btw them. Currently, gallente have 5 different t1 , and there is four different races, assuming the industrial is limited to 3 for each race, if would be interesting to differentiate each race by other criteria.

Another idea is to unify the skill for industrial, maybe under ORE , or just add this skill and rebalance the primea as PI hauler. However keeping the current skill tree/ industrial ship line is neither intuitive or practical.

the concept was good, each ship has a role. the problem became apparent when the role bonuses were not sufficient for the role, or sacrificed too much to do the role, or simply had a role that didn't actually exist. the rebalance didn't balance anything.

Engineering V is the crucial skill, and you must spend around a week training it, but the meta modules will cut away the rest of the training time. The 164k EHP is based on an extremely low skill character (alt made for the Orca) without a mechanic skill. A base mechanic skill of 2 (perhaps what a starting character has), brings it up to 175k EHP. Training mechanic will rapidly increase the EHP.

You are right the MWD trick eliminates the aligning penalty. That means that alignment cannot be used to balance the industrials against the Orca. The Orca is what an industrial wants to be. The decrease in training time will make Orcas available to many more people. I still want to see what changes they are planning for the other industrials sooner rather than later.



The procurer tank is up around 70-80k EHP. I would guess that a Caldari, or Minmatar industrial might be setup for that after these changes. Couple that with an appropriate setup, and I think we will see something that can be used in unorthodox ways. Perhaps they may be setup as bait.



The skill changes have already been announced. They could change things around again. They could completely change things in the last week. I would rather that they let us know what they are doing so they get some feedback.

Using speed, tank, and cargohold they can differentiate the industrials and the races. For example every race gets a ship with between 25-27k cargohold and relatively weak tanks. Every race gets a ship with a tank of around 60-80k EHP. Every race gets a ship with good align times, warp speed, and space speed. Now each of the ships within the races are different. Between the races the differences would be who has the best in each category. Gallente can have the largest cargo hold, but everyone will be close enough that it won't normally matter. Perhaps the Caldari can have the best tank (shield tanking industrials). Minmatar can have the best speed, and Amarr can have the second best in each category or something.

Hopefully CCP will recognize that when we talk about speed we are talking about time to warp, and a bit of time in warp. Space speed is not often significant. Hopefully they will give us some information soon so we can give them feedback.

Alternatively, they "could" simply nerf the attributes of the orca with one of two methods:

A.) Reduce it's base PG by ~250 MW. It will still be possible to fit a 100 mn on the orca, but only by fitting several fitting mods (RC 2, ACR 2, and 1 more PG mod/implant). This is viable, as most support Orca's would still have PG for Gang Links and a shield tank even with the loss of ~250 PG.

B.) Alter the mass/agility attributes of the Orca so a single cycle of the 100mn MWD won't accelerate the Orca to warp speed. The Orca's mass (250m kg) is 200-250% the mass of a BS (~100m kg), but 20-25% the mass of a capital (Freighter/Carrier/Dread = ~1b kg). If you double the mass of the Orca and change it's inertia modifier to maintain the same speed/agility, then BS MWD's will probably take 2 cycles to actually put the Orca into warp (essentially doubling the align time). This would be problematic for many WH dwellers though, as the max "mass limit" of many, many WH's is 300m kg's, resulting in many "trapped" Orca's.



I really, really want to emphasize that speed does not equal agility. And, IMO, agility is a bigger deal for logistics than speed!

Speed matters when autopiloting and must travel from 15km's out to the gate. It also helps you move from wreck to wreck or can to can more quickly, but tractor beams are going to be more effective despite any speed enhancements. Simply put, speed is "nice" but no-where near as important as agility. Agility matters in your time to "enter warp". To the person not autopiloting, it's improved agility (not speed) that gets your from point A to B faster. If operating in "dangerous space", it agility that allows you to get into warp (i.e. safe) more quickly.

I really want to know what people are imagining when they suggest "speed as a balancing attributed". Keep in mind:
Agility == ability to rapidly accelerate or change direction.
Speed == Higher Max Velocity.

Please clarify: Do you imagine a ship quickly moving from wreck to wreck (at mwd cruiser speeds)? Do you imagine a ship auto-traveling from 15km's out to gate at base frigate speeds? Do you mean a ship entering warp like a nano'd cruiser? Do they want all of this?

Interdiction nullification anyone??

Not talking about warp core strength, I'm talking about Interdiction nullification.

So Interdiction Nullification is OP as a stand-alone bonus?

So sig radius, EHP, alignment time etc don't matter if you have Interdiction Nullification?

Very interesting...

I think doing the same thing for haulers that they did for the mining barges is kind of lame, I mean we all see what happened there right? Capacity is king and haulers will be no different. As long as they actually provide real differences and not just tank/cargo/??? then we might be okay.


In fact -
While we're on the subject, how about something to shoot for between the haulers and freighters size/cost wise? Doesn't need to be fancy. I was thinking along the lines of JF ish capacity (minus jump capability if that's not obvious) at maybe Orca ish cost, might do the trick.

Although people use the Orca for that purpose, It's not exactly a good fit for the role.