Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Well - yeah - that's a pretty good berakdown of the different roles.

I can't imagine they'd be planning anything much different TBH. Unless they made an ORE transport for the Ore Hold role and the Primae could come back for the PI ship - no one uses them because they have no capacity or slots much but they look awesome.

They might then go for the Hold/EHP/Allign options like they did for the mining barges and make each the best at one of them.

Either would be cool!

I simply hope that the industrial ship overhaul is presented with enough time for feedback like the combat ships received. I don't want to hear that they don't have time to make "those changes."

I want to see the new models for caldari and amarr, assuming that every faction is going to have an offering for all 3 types.

First and foremost, thank you for this wonderful new forum thread. We thoroughly appreciate your new ideas. This is such an insightful post, because it allows us to truly discuss rebalancing some important changes to come.

I'd like to first add to this new and important discussion by looking for similar reference material that might be related. To do that, I simply go to the search feature, type in "industrial" and browse the first two of 45 pages of results. These threads might be relevant:

An odd idea on the industrial ship rebalance
[Odyssey] BR, DST & Industrial changes
Plans and Ideas for T1 Industrial Rebalance?
Industrial Revamp any time soon?
New industrial ship roles
Industrial Tiericide
Tiericide and the most important issue with industrial
A concept of the future of the T1 industrial transport ships.
A quick request on the upcoming Industrial tiericide-
Industrial Hauler Revamp Ideas
[Proposal] - Industrial Revamp
Tiericide - Industrials Edition?
Tiercide Industrials

Well, now that we realize this might not actually be a new idea, perhaps we could include some review of what's been discussed before related to rebalancing or tiericiding industrials. That way we can distinguish this thread as a go to reference summary. (Hint: That would be useful....)

An Odd Idea - Modifying Cargohold Expanders
[Odyssey] BR,DST - Asking when we will know more.
Plans and Ideas - Reposting of a summary of the ships.
Industrial Revamp - Asking when we will know more.
New industrial ship roles - Some ideas on roles.
Industrial Tiericide - Some ideas on roles.
Tiericide and the most - Short discussion on small cargohold + fast as an option.
A concept of the future - Some roles and a discussion of who is rude to who.
A quick request - Questions about what we do with the extra Gallente ships.
Industrial Hauler Revamp - More role ideas.
[Proposal] - Industrial Revamp - All about changing BPOs
Tiericide - Industrial Edition? - A balanced thread with some roles and discussion.
Tiericide Industrials - Some role discussion including Q-ships (combat industrials).

The idea of evening out the capacity is common. Tank is occasionally discussed. There is also often a talk about why we have so many threads. The threads never go beyond 2 pages.

Two roles commonly discussed are large cargohold/slow, and smaller carghold/fast.
There is also the idea for some hulls carrying specialized cargo (ore, minerals, PI, items for your favorite activity).

I think I saw Shahfluffers occasionally suggest that CCP would do the three lines he is confirming here: tanky, speed, large cargohold.

The extra models for some races and the dropped models for Gallente are also topics for discussion.

I would think most of the topics on Roles discussion have lots of repeated but relevant information. Thank you for the summary Kad.

Now, if we can convince Serenity Galad to add your summary & links to the main post, and take up regularly reading the thread topics to update it with relevant information, then we'll have a very nice thread here...

With only 10 Seconds to Warp (100mn mwd trick), just under 100k m3 cargo, and just over 200k EHP makes it a very sturdy and agile hauler.

Yes and no....

You could use a 5% PG implant (100m isk and fit the following):

[Orca, Shamu (LSE2)]
Damage Control II
Reinforced Bulkheads II

EM Ward Field II
Thermic Dissipation Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Prototype 100MN Microwarpdrive I

Improved Cloaking Device II
[empty high slot]
[empty high slot]

Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I
Large Cargohold Optimization I


Or simply drop the bulkhead and fit a PDU instead (reducing EHP from 235 to 200k)...

The competition of the Orca may be something they consider, either now or in the winter. The fit Gizznitt Malikite suggested requires around 18 days training for the modules, and will require around 18 days for the Orca down from 50 (Skill Changes).

The Orca would have an EHP of ~ 160k, an align time of ~ 56 seconds, and a cargo of 47000 m3 (+40k Corporate Hanger, +50k Orehold). The differences from above estimates are in low skills of a quick train.

Perhaps they will differentiate the industrials based on skills required (Racial Industrial I). They might also try align time. Competing on hauling capacity or EHP sounds silly. They may be planning on just letting everyone aim for an Orca, or they might decide to actually balance the two. In some of the early discussions they listed the Orca in their balancing plans.

In any case it seems like they should give the community time to respond to their ideas.

The modules I suggested could be replaced with meta rather than t2 to take week or two off of the training requirement. Furthermore, it should have ~200k EHP with the PDU, or 235k using the implant (both of which are more EHP than a freighter has). Finally, the align time is 10 seconds because of the MWD trick (which is why you fit the MWD).

Out of the Orca, Freighter, Deep space Transport, and t1 industrials, the Orca has the best EHP, second best cargo hold, and an agility on par (or better than) most of the ships mentioned above. It is also 600m (less than a freighter).

In rebalancing the industrial ships, I think there needs to be a trade-off between: Agility (not speed), Tank, and Cargo Capacity.
Any particular ship should be great at one attribute, ok at another, but have a poor value for the final attribute. (cost shouldn't be a factor).



P.S. The MWD trick: to enter warp, you need to be moving towards your destination (aligned) and traveling at 75% of your max velocity. Turning on the MWD increases your max velocity and increases the rate at which you accelerate, but it doesn't' change your current velocity!! Pulsing the MWD (turning it on, and then off) while aligning to warp is the trick. When the MWD is on, you accelerate at a greater rate achieving a higher velocity more quickly. When the MWD turns off, you'll still be traveling at that faster rate, but your max velocity is instantly much lower. If the current velocity when the MWD shuts off is above the "75% of max velocity" threshold your ship has when the MWD is off, you instantly enter warp. The MWD cycle is 10 seconds, which is why your align time is 10 seconds (despite what EFT tells you).