Warfare & Tactics

I guess it is important to get the grunts perspective. Those of us who had input on the metagaming, that actually played the metagame, that know nulli brought their tier push forwards because they were losing vulnerable systems, that gallentes metagaming caldari shell corps worked perfectly etc SHOULD have a counter opinion plastered in every thread to show what the happenings in inferno looked like from a completely uninformed and excluded perspective.

Its sometimes too much to ask that someone take the wrong side of nearly all arguments but as a master of insignificance he is there to deliver the wrong answers time and time again. For that i thank you for sacrificing your credibility cretin.

I did see him in a plex once though, that didnt go very well for him.

How about defender missiles on hubs instead of sentries to address bomber busting. :p

Don't hold back, tell me what you really think.

Yes nulli did all the bunker busting. To say you never saw me in a plex well that is pretty ridiculous. Most people who see me see that I am pretty much always in a plex unless I am afk and docked up. Thats true now and when I was in amarr. I tried to push amarr to plex - for amarr - not minmatar. I was telling amarr if they wanted to get rich then just get the minmatar lp through missions instead of plexing.

Weren't you were the one who posted how you were selling things from the amarr lp store at tier 1 and that amarr should not complain. I asked you if you were really spending that much lp for a slicer and you stopped responding.

I gave my 2 cents about plexing strategies and I also was pushing some of my somewhat reluctant corp mates to plex as well. I was never a director of ILAW so I didn't pretend to speak for them, but my corp allowed everyone in the corp to say what they wanted, and I did.

I suggested that amarr stop plexing todifraun to 9999999% contested and instead move on to some other systems so we can get them vulnerable as well. I was out there with my alts trying to get those systems vunerable every night. Yes I was using alts because the ridiculous npcs made it so it was more effective to do this in a gunless frigate than in a combat ship.

I also had heated discussions with some amarr on these very boards and various blogs about doing offensive plexing instead of defensive plexing. A few amarr had the idea in their head that defensive plexing somehow showed more support for amarr than offensive plexing when in fact it just fed the minmatar rabbit horde.

The other issue I had to argue against was that many amarr wanted to flip systems as soon as they could.

Here is an example of my trying to get amarr to use smart tactics just a month after inferno was released:

http://cry-moar.blogspot.com/2012/06/from-minmatar.html

You can be sure that I shared these ideas internally before posting them publicly.

I also posted these ideas in joint amarr strategy forums. Yes these ideas seem overly simple and obvious now. But it took the amarr longer to get up to speed and forces mobilized for numerous reasons.

Slowly but surely the arguments that we should offensive plex and not flip systems until a cashout started to win out. Thats when amarr started to finally make the push to a higher tier cashout. This happened before nulli even joined fw.

So you can try to reinvent history all you want. But its well documented that I was very much pushing amarr to try to do well using the correct tactics.

Why don't you post what you were telling amarr to do a month after inferno hit?

Ahhh,


Everyone is like this faction has to many plexers that faction has to many plexers..........



GUYS THE MASSIVE PLEXING FARMS ARE ALL JUST ALTS!


Several and when I several I mean pretty much all of the major 0.0 blocks, have an alt corp for FW in which they just massively plex. If any of you have alts in these corps you most likely already know because they have sent out corp/alliance mails about it. Most FW peeps all have alts in other factions as well just to make money off the winning/loosing side. Personally this is a problem that all of eve suffers from, its not one side or the other, its alts that ruin the mechanics. When Caldari was winning all the plexers switched sides over to us.... when gal started winning, they switched back to the mimintar!


Now I am not going to go on this "nerf alts" rampage, because thats just beating a dead horse, we all know better and it's not going to happen. The game mechanics need to be balanced in a way that you make more LP through FIGHTING IN PLEXES then just sitting there and hoping no one shows up!

They need to give LP bonuses to fights in plexes, based on ships destroyed or how long the enemy was there before you left... but instead all you get is penalties if you chase an enemy off you have to wait 30+ minutes and in that time the plex farmers just go farm 2-3 more sites while they know you are waiting on that one... or you leave to chase them and they just come back.

SImply put right now, you have to WANT good fights in plexes to get them... You have to go poke a home system for the enemy, and stir up the bee hive in some way and the people who want to come out and fight generally will come out and fight.

Those of us who know how and where to get the good fights, are not missing out on the fights.... Hell I have had more good fights in the past 5 days then the 90 of being in 0.0.


As a result, I have some decent ideas on how to make plexes more "fighty" and less "flighty"

1.) Give bonuses for LP based on the number of pilots in a plex, instead of splitting it add a multiplier bonus to it. This mechanic has worked in many other RvR games, to encourages pilots/players to fly together, instead of selfishly trying to take plexes solo in stabbed cloak ships. Big fleets sitting, draw big fights.

2.) If a fight of any kind goes down in a plex, ADD to the lp that the plex is worth until its taken.. This encourages the losers of a fight to reship, and also again gives interest to even solo plexers, because the risk of staying and fighting now has a higher reward....

3.) Ditch the timmer system and use a bar. It starts in the middle and goes either left or right. The more people in the plex of a specific faction the faster it goes. DO NOT STOP THE BAR IF THERE IS A FIGHT! If no one is in the plex, the bar starts to go back to the neutral middle area.

3.) Ditch the dumb ass tier system, and instead transfer its bonuses to systems that have been captured. Go back to decreasing prices for LP, but put the LP stores in low sec, and base the LP bonuses soloy in the systems that have been taken and upgraded.... base the bonuses of course on the upgrade level of the system. This creates value in systems and gives corps/alliances invested interest in keeping and holding a system. It also will balance the market because things like navy drakes and CNRs will need to be transported in and out of low sec.. making their prices valuable again (aside from the ones coming from high sec) You might have to increase the amount of LP it takes to upgrade systems as a result.

4.) Stop the "Alt Snowballing effect" that happens when one side starts winning, all the plexers or others just join that side because its "easy isk". Something like shorter defensive timers, or more LP from plexes for the sides that are loosing, will cause the alts to "balance" themselves, because it will no longer be as profitable to jump sides as soon as you think the other side has easier offensive plexing, or because they have a higher tier system.

5.) Everyone should be able to make ISK in FW, however FW is kind of like Null "lite" and as a result the mechanics should be based kind of around its "mini sov" system. Corps and alliances that decide they want to take and hold a handful of systems should be rewarded for doing so.


Right now as it stands, the plexers and pvpers have separated mindsets..... PvPers dont want to wait in plexes for 15 minutes in hope of a fight, and plexers don't want to fight. There needs to be work done to bring those two together.

We were discussing the merits of the cashout system versus the current forever grind system.

Did you know we still have to bust ihubs to flip a system even though they ended the general cashout scheme?

There is nothing that says a cashout system must use bunker busting.

Yet another non-sequitur from XG.

Your dismissal of this one result of the previous system is damning enough. Seriously.

The minnies were hoping you hit t5 too bcos like 90% of them had an amarr alt waiting for shiney battleships ;) .... the bunkers were all in place tho after nulli stopped bashing them the amarr couldve flipped the last few if they had formed up they wouldnt have had much minnie resistance as i said minnies wanted to cash out with there amarr alts too

I think hes implying inferno was nice and dandy for you cashing in but not putting ne work in to get those tier levels... While others had to slog for it doing ehp grinds all you saw was oooooooohhh iskies \o/ ..... No wonder you look back on it so fondly imo ur no worse than a rabbit farmer

Nope I mean the ehp grinds are still here even though the cashout system we discussed is gone. Ehp grinds can be completely distinct from a cashout pay system.

It seems you and XG are incapable of understanding this.

Well then your are spouting out nonesense as well. Because that is what I said. How we get our lp either from a cashout system or the current one does not create pvp. It's a seperate issue.



You are spouting more of the same nonesense I am.

Just a suggestion: Perhaps you should take the time to get an understanding of the positions people are taking, before you come out swinging at them.