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Dev Blog: WantToTrade: Tags for Security Status

First post First post
Author
Marsan
#221 - 2013-05-13 19:21:21 UTC
Seems to me this will kill any sort of LS mining, but I guess it not that much of a loss as there wasn't much to kill.

Former forum cheerleader CCP, now just a grumpy small portion of the community.

Gunner
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#222 - 2013-05-13 21:49:37 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Gunner wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Bexar Ying wrote:
My response to that is the same as always. "You and I don't play the same game. We just use the same servers."

Have a nice day.


Hate to break it to you, but you play the same game in different ways. There's a big difference between that and different games on the same servers, and if it's ever the latter we here at CCP have a problem that we need to fix.


Kinda pathetic that after all these years you clearly still do not understand your own game. Go fix Tech instead of this bullshit.


Good idea.


I guess this missed my attention after three years waiting.
db Deckard
Loc-Nar Support Services
#223 - 2013-05-13 22:26:06 UTC
Sheena Tzash wrote:
Its a great sounding idea but I wanna ask a few more questions:

1) With the next expansion you've said that ore belts are getting a buff; but with the addtion of these new NPCs to those sites it will obviously increase the chance of visitors to those belts. What is the incentive now for miners to mine in these belts now that they are going to soon become mini PvP play grounds for people to 'rat4tags'

2) Will we have some ability to see an audit of a players sec status? I can see some people abusing this system by going -10, ratting back to zero, joining a nooby corp, puts on the 'innocent look' to get into the corp and then runs off, causes trouble and gets the nooby corp war deced and quickly does a road runner impression from the nooby corp and leaves them to face the music.

Rince & repeat for tears.


Sheena is on target here. No one mines in low-sec because the pirates have such an advantage. Currently if I have 5.0 security status and someone warps in with -5 I better not shoot first or I'll lose security status. If you know much at all about PvP you'll also know that he who shots first normally wins. So a miner is in an expensive mining barge and he cant shoot first allowing the bad guys to bring in all the sharks. The miner would have to be a recent graduate from Gooberville-U!!!!

This tag thing is a really bad idea. Just give even more of an advantage to the low-sec pirates. Really they dont need more of an advantage!! I am still grinding rep from 2-3 because I wanted to experiment with low-sec rules from 2 years ago!!!
Lady Areola Fappington
#224 - 2013-05-13 23:08:29 UTC
db Deckard wrote:


Sheena is on target here. No one mines in low-sec because the pirates have such an advantage. Currently if I have 5.0 security status and someone warps in with -5 I better not shoot first or I'll lose security status. If you know much at all about PvP you'll also know that he who shots first normally wins. So a miner is in an expensive mining barge and he cant shoot first allowing the bad guys to bring in all the sharks. The miner would have to be a recent graduate from Gooberville-U!!!!

This tag thing is a really bad idea. Just give even more of an advantage to the low-sec pirates. Really they dont need more of an advantage!! I am still grinding rep from 2-3 because I wanted to experiment with low-sec rules from 2 years ago!!!


Wanna know how I know that you don't PVP in high/low?

-5.0 and below are outlaw. Shoot em to your hearts content, no sec status loss.

It would be nice if people engaged in a mechanic before they complained about a mechanic.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide

OldWolf69
EVE-RO
Goonswarm Federation
#225 - 2013-05-14 00:28:59 UTC
The ideea is there's way too much isk in the game. Way to easy to get. What's so dificult to understand? A serious question is in wich hands are so much isk, but....nah, "our logs show the absolute truth", blabla. A real consequence of bad administration and idiocy. No problem with the fact they try to fix this. But be honest about, don't call it improvement. Hypochrisy is really annoying. And once u step down on that path...welcome to the Dark...errrrr.....Bark Side.Lol
Kusum Fawn
Perkone
Caldari State
#226 - 2013-05-14 04:19:01 UTC
I don't see this adding anything useful o the game. If faction navies were to become several strengths higher and podded negative sec pilots then this would become a worth mechanic addition, but seeing as how the benefits of having a positive sec are virtually nothing while the impediments to negative sec are also virtually nothing, what value does adding the tag mechanic to the game bring?

This feels for the most part to be a reach to appease Fw plexers who have for a long time had to deal with bad fw mechanics and not a real problem within the eve game outside of that. If anyone at or within the plex area was flagged as a combatant or even within the fw system itself, then one of the problems with FW would be mitigated.

This new mechanic will also not affect many of the people that it is seemingly aimed at., those who are using alts to gank in hisec. The concord mechanics are known and documented, which parts are and arent exploits though the rulings are a little mixed. The rise and strategy of ice barge ganking has the manipulation of concord pretty well explained and demonstrated though defensive measures which use the same strategy in reverse is ruled an exploit. Because of this, being negative ten does not in any way shape or form change how the gank is carried out as the response to security status is not the same as the aggression status. Were sec of a player a factor in how fast and when concord responded or faction navies responded ot individuals then this mechanic could and would be used to great effect. however because an individuals sec itself does not impede these behaviors in any way the redemption of sec is not necessary.

People will still have to rat for hours to obtain tags be it lowsec status people, their alts or people just for tags. this changes nothing but whether or not you will lose sec firing on these collectors. If you have made a choice to get negative sec why should you have an easy alternative? live with your choice or work through fixing it. I agree that fixing ones sec is not fun, but it exposes one to risk, and thus more combat.

I expect to see a rise in noctis alts

Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.

Azrael Dinn
Imperial Mechanics
#227 - 2013-05-14 08:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Azrael Dinn
EvilweaselSA wrote:
if it's profitable to gank you in highsec and you let it happened you ****** up, and deserve to be ganked


I always wondered why I wanted to infiltrate goons and kill them from inside out... now I know why Lol

Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
Azrael Dinn wrote:


...


I think I covered this earlier. You want a PUNISHMENT for ganking. In your mind, the PUNISHMENT for ganking is performing mindless sec grind. "that's what they deserve" et al....

With Tags4Sec, you don't get to allow the "system" to exact punishment for you. You gotta do it yourself now. It's very EVEish.


Answer me this question, grasshopper....if grinding rats in nullsec ALSO generated a random plex, would we be having this discussion?

You want someone punished for their misdeeds, YOU go do it. If you can't...well, sorry, that's EVE. Not everyone is a winner.


It's funny how narrow minded you point of view on this subject is.

And no... I do not see the grinding as punishment. I see the sec status loss as a punishment so everyone actualy knows you are a "criminal" and how the new system will work is that there wont even be a sec status penalty.

If I had my way "criminals" would be labeled as criminals for life. But I can't have my way I will say till end of EvE that this will be a insanely stupid idea if something else will not be done to balance this. Mayby something like kill rights market. But the way this is being implemented... this is just stupid and wrong.

After centuries of debating and justifying... Break Cloaks tm

EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#228 - 2013-05-14 15:23:37 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
EvilweaselSA wrote:
if it's profitable to gank you in highsec and you let it happened you ****** up, and deserve to be ganked


I always wondered why I wanted to infiltrate goons and kill them from inside out... now I know why Lol

everyone covets the space throne, but you come at the space king you best not miss~~~

however i happen to be a recruiter for goonswarm, we could use someone with your motivation. we'll require the standard background check and security deposit of course, just drop me an evemail
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#229 - 2013-05-14 15:27:39 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
And no... I do not see the grinding as punishment. I see the sec status loss as a punishment so everyone actualy knows you are a "criminal" and how the new system will work is that there wont even be a sec status penalty.

of course there's a penalty

i have to part with my hard-earned isk to buy tags, forcing me to gank you in a navy brutix instead of ganking you in a navy megathron when i choose to gank with the bling on
Adunh Slavy
#230 - 2013-05-16 03:51:55 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:

CONCORD corp standing will be reset to 0.0



Does that include DED? Shot up some of their haulers years ago, they didn't seem to like it much.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

DivineHero
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#231 - 2013-05-29 05:07:07 UTC
http://pastebin.com/mDLBFA6u

From 3504 to 4138.

Окей,дело вот в чём.Один из вас,все вы или,может,никто из вас не,точно знает,что тут происходит.

Ramius Decimus
Daitengu Fleet
#232 - 2013-06-04 06:00:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ramius Decimus
Only 20 tags to get from -10 to 0? So what's the point of even having a security status for capsuleers, then?

The security status is suppose to be proof that you're a criminal or someone who performs bad actions against other capsuleers, and the frequency and severity of the actions rated by your security status. It's part of the consequence for doing such actions. Being able to trade in a few tags to reset your security status despite the fact that you're a cyber sociopath completely negates that consequence. Especially if these tags can be sold. So why bother with the security status? It'll become as meaningless as bounties (which oddly you can place a bounty on yourself).

What?

Rear Admiral

Commander-in-Chief

90th Fleet

Caldari Navy

Dosperado
Ethereal Morality
The Initiative.
#233 - 2013-06-04 08:59:03 UTC
CCP Masterplan wrote:
DJ FunkyBacon wrote:
Hah! Who needs lowsec CSM representation when we have CCP Masterplan? Love the change.

One thing though, I thought security status could only go up to +5, but the devblog mentions -10 to +10. Typo, troll, or for reals?

CONCORD standing (like any other standing) has always ranged from -10 to +10. The reason that very few people have it above +5 is because NPCs have a 'max sec status bonus' attribute that is the maximum standing value that they can raise up to. There are no rats any more that have this value above +5, hence there is no way via ratting to get above this value. This won't change in the new system - the rats will still have this limit at which they stop giving sec-status increases.

(Back in the first days of EVE, there used to be other ways to raise CONCORD standing above this level, but those are no longer possible. Hence there are still a few very old characters out there that have such high CONCORD standings - there is no way to achieve it any more, and if they lose it, they'll not be able to get it back)

So, no troll, no typo, definitely for reals. Maybe we'll use this extra headroom one day for something interesting...


I hope this won't change anytime soon. It was a PITA and took me almost a few years to get up to 9.0 security status (with skills).

This is one of the very few things that make real eve veterans different from other players.

EVE Veteran