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Dev Blog: WantToTrade: Tags for Security Status

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Gunship
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2013-05-09 06:48:02 UTC
I welcome this change Big smile

I play fraction warfare and shooting at naturals at the plexes are an every day event. Kind of kill or be killed event.

Having to go to 0.0 or do lvl 4's to bring me up over the -2.0 is a pain. I only have a few hours to play each night, so spending 2 days a week doing lvl 4's is killing my love for the game. Yes eve has a certain grind element for isk making or gaining sec status, but lowering this so we all can have more fun and less grind has to be good business ( both inside and outside of the game)!

Will CCP/CSM consider giving a small sec bonus for handing in the plex tag's that the NPC's drop in those FW plexes?

 How To use a Probe Scanner in Eve Online

Tsubutai
Perkone
Caldari State
#182 - 2013-05-09 09:12:34 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Quite honestly to be blunt, I'm sick and tired of all this bullsh*t. This game is supposed to provide a fun pleasurable exhilarating time when logged in, not some fear ridden apprehensive uncomfortable feeling.


http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=528360&page=1#29
CCP Wrangler, back in the day wrote:
EVE is a dark and harsh world, you're supposed to feel a bit worried and slightly angry when you log in, you're not supposed to feel like you're logging in to a happy, happy, fluffy, fluffy lala land filled with fun and adventures, that's what hello kitty online is for.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#183 - 2013-05-09 10:39:59 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
What I don't think people understand is this isn't really going to affect -10 pirates in highsec anyway as they can gank as a -10. This is going to be a good change for the Faction Warfare guys with negative sec status out there.

Chill out people and actually look at it from both sides...

Well initially I was fully against it because of this statement...

"We have had players that would rather stop playing altogether than grind their way back up by killing NPCs".

They have chosen actions in the game and now that they have consequences they want to quit. So instead of holding them to their choices we will help them out by creating an entirely new game feature. Three day olds are told HTFU, but veteran player have to have the game changed for them? Not because they was no way to change their status, but because it was too hard, This statement/attitude is just wrong on so many levels.


This part is good.


Give players a reason to be out in space. In particular, to be out in low-sec space.
Add something unique to low-sec that gives residents and visitors a resource worth fighting over
Add an alternative method of raising security status via the proven market mechanics


So, I like the change for what it might do for lowsec... needed change/opportunity. As for FW pilots and lowsec PvPers, I fully support their ability to get back standing. As for Gankers (profit), if the tags are expensive... it doesn't economically make a lot of sense to spend 10s or 100s of millions of ISK to get standing back. Those that Gank for tears will still be able to gank with bad standing anyway.

I think I like the change; and I think it will be good.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#184 - 2013-05-09 11:12:52 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
To CCP,

This 'Tag for Security' is nothing more than a 'Get out of jail' card. Basically you're removing 'Consequences of Choices' and 'Risk verses Reward', etc. and replacing it with a P2W option.


What consequences of choice does a hisec mission runner face? They've been given a mechanism to do missions for all factions, so they don't ruin their standings towards anyone.


Quote:
Over the past few years Eve Online has been slowly turning into Griefer Online where Criminals are amply rewarded and Law Abiding Citizens are severely penalized. Hopefully CCP will soon see the error of their ways but I'm afraid by then the proverbial "Camel's Back" will already be broken well beyond repair.


Please give even one example of griefing that was not resolved by a GM. Also give an example of how criminals are rewarded (I'm not aware of any criminal act that would be rewarded by game mechanics) and how "Law Abiding Citizens" are severely penalized.

Have you personally been griefed? Have you reported it, and CCP rewarded the griefer, and penalized you?


Quote:

I'm sure there's a lot of people who are getting very disinterested with this game due to it's direction over the past few years. I know I'm just one of many players who use to spend hours on a daily basis logged into the game. Over the past few years game interest has steadily been lost and now only spend a few hours a week in-game. In fact some cases only spend a few hours a month in-game. This will eventually result in a 'Quit'..


I'm sure that there's even more people who are very interested in the game and enjoy the rebalancing and fixes that have been introduced in the past expansions. Direction has been the same throughout the lifespan of EVE, to create a dark, dangerous virtual game universe.

Quote:
Enough with the hype and endless PR crap about the CSM. Most players don't give a rats arse what the CSM members say or think. The CSM doesn't represent the majority of the player base and they definitely don't represent me.


That's their, and your problem then. I've made sure I've voted for candidates that represent areas important to me, and so far they've always made it to the council, and done excellent work. I don't see this changing with people like Malcanis on board.

Quote:
Quite honestly to be blunt, I'm sick and tired of all this bullsh*t. This game is supposed to provide a fun pleasurable exhilarating time when logged in, not some fear ridden apprehensive uncomfortable feeling. Nor should the reading of Dev Blogs / Expansion Proposals / Patch Notes create feelings of anger, distrust and suspicions of backroom dealings that only benefit a select few.


No, it's not supposed to provide a "fun" time. It's supposed to provide an experience out of this world. Challenging, dangerous, thrilling, exciting. That's what it does.

.
Xylorn Hasher
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#185 - 2013-05-09 12:13:56 UTC
Azrael Dinn wrote:
ok I get that you want people into lowsec but isks for security status... this is by far one of the stupidest ideas you had so far.


Said the guy with 5.0

Idea is epic, but im worried bout implementation as CCP is known to make things the soft way.

All my posts are made shortly after Marihuana consumption.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#186 - 2013-05-09 12:38:14 UTC
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Gunner wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Gunner wrote:
And yet another fine example of CCP stearing the game into more ship kills, preferably in high sec to maximize damage done ISK wise.

More ISK destroyed, more time invested in the game destroyed, more time needed to recover the losses, more rl $ for CCP.

Bah.



That... that all sounds pretty good to me.

I'll definitely be encouraging CCP to make more changes to drive the effects you list. In fact we have already started.


You do realize the number of eve players that DIDN'T vote for you, now do you?



Yep. They have the reps they voted for to represent their perspective. Anyone who did put me on one of their voting choices should know exactly what I stand for, and it would be a gross betrayal of their trust to let them down.


Well, I voted for you which means I obviously missed the campaign speech of you endorsing consequence free high security suicide ganks....


You missed it because I didn't make it. Ganking isn't consequence free now and it won't be after the tags come into effect.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#187 - 2013-05-09 12:40:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vaju Enki
DeMichael Crimson wrote:
To CCP,

This 'Tag for Security' is nothing more than a 'Get out of jail' card. Basically you're removing 'Consequences of Choices' and 'Risk verses Reward', etc. and replacing it with a P2W option.

Now for this bullsh*t about resetting players Security Status to 0.00. If you're talking about players with negative security status than fine. I don't have a problem with that since it's basically like a reprieve from the Governor.

However, I as well as other upstanding law abiding citizens of Eve have spent a lot of time to get a high security status. If that is knocked back to 0.00 then you're basically hitting us with a nerf bat as well as turning all our time spent gaining that status into a huge waste of time.

Over the past few years Eve Online has been slowly turning into Griefer Online where Criminals are amply rewarded and Law Abiding Citizens are severely penalized. Hopefully CCP will soon see the error of their ways but I'm afraid by then the proverbial "Camel's Back" will already be broken well beyond repair.

I'm sure there's a lot of people who are getting very disinterested with this game due to it's direction over the past few years. I know I'm just one of many players who use to spend hours on a daily basis logged into the game. Over the past few years game interest has steadily been lost and now only spend a few hours a week in-game. In fact some cases only spend a few hours a month in-game. This will eventually result in a 'Quit'..

Enough with the hype and endless PR crap about the CSM. Most players don't give a rats arse what the CSM members say or think. The CSM doesn't represent the majority of the player base and they definitely don't represent me.

Quite honestly to be blunt, I'm sick and tired of all this bullsh*t. This game is supposed to provide a fun pleasurable exhilarating time when logged in, not some fear ridden apprehensive uncomfortable feeling. Nor should the reading of Dev Blogs / Expansion Proposals / Patch Notes create feelings of anger, distrust and suspicions of backroom dealings that only benefit a select few.

I think I'll stop now before I break any 'Rules'.



DMC


EvE Online is clearly not the game for you, since you hate the heart and soul of this game. Maybe try some kindergarten themepark mmo-rpg, you will be happy their.


About the Tags for Sec, it's a awesome change that's been request for age's. A great buff to lowsec belt PvP, it's going to be a shooting gallery. The people that cry about this features, you just don't have a clue. Do you also cry that gankers don't have to make their own ships since they can buy them in the market?

The Tears Must Flow
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#188 - 2013-05-09 12:46:35 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
What I don't think people understand is this isn't really going to affect -10 pirates in highsec anyway as they can gank as a -10. This is going to be a good change for the Faction Warfare guys with negative sec status out there.

Chill out people and actually look at it from both sides...



but but but grrr pirates!

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Manny Moons
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#189 - 2013-05-09 12:47:31 UTC
eVRiAL wrote:
This change still not fixing the issue that Concord Assembly faction standing cannot be raised.

I was hoping to find more information about this aspect of the change. On Singularity, existing Concord faction standings seem to have been removed as promised in the dev blog. I was hoping to find some new Concord agents in the Agent Finder, but so far there are none.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#190 - 2013-05-09 12:47:50 UTC
So stepping past the argument for a bit, a few numbers for people who are actually interested in the changes for their own sake.

Turn-in processing fees are 3-6m per tag (or I'm assuming it's per tag rather than per batch, I didn't get the opportunity to test that). That's 3m for the tags closer to -10, up to 6m for the tags closer to 0, though. Which makes sense - CONCORD is no doubt fully aware of the phenomena of suicide ganking and that it will place extra demand for tags in the -5 to 0 range, and so naturally as demand is high they can charge more. Blink

As far as the spawn rate goes... that's hard to say. I got five NPCs (all Negotiators) in one past through an 11 belt system, one stop in each belt. I then got one NPC in the next 44 belts I visited over the next four systems. Whether that's an actual reflection of reality rather than being affected by test server quirks (all but the first system I visited were offline before I jumped in, perhaps that affects spawns in some way) is beyond me, so suffice it to say, the data is inconclusive.

Getting five identical spawns in a row in the same system is odd, though. Not impossible, but certainly starting to get "up there" on the scale of "improbable"... Blink

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#191 - 2013-05-09 12:48:16 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Do you also cry that gankers don't have to make their own ships since they can buy them in the market?


Hmmm would it be good or bad for EVE if we were able to filter who was able to access our sell orders?

Should miners and munfacturers be able to decline to sell to people they don't like (or only to people they do like)?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Lady Areola Fappington
#192 - 2013-05-09 12:57:03 UTC
mynnna wrote:
So stepping past the argument for a bit, a few numbers for people who are actually interested in the changes for their own sake.

Turn-in processing fees are 3-6m per tag (or I'm assuming it's per tag rather than per batch, I didn't get the opportunity to test that). That's 3m for the tags closer to -10, up to 6m for the tags closer to 0, though. Which makes sense - CONCORD is no doubt fully aware of the phenomena of suicide ganking and that it will place extra demand for tags in the -5 to 0 range, and so naturally as demand is high they can charge more. Blink

As far as the spawn rate goes... that's hard to say. I got five NPCs (all Negotiators) in one past through an 11 belt system, one stop in each belt. I then got one NPC in the next 44 belts I visited over the next four systems. Whether that's an actual reflection of reality rather than being affected by test server quirks (all but the first system I visited were offline before I jumped in, perhaps that affects spawns in some way) is beyond me, so suffice it to say, the data is inconclusive.

Getting five identical spawns in a row in the same system is odd, though. Not impossible, but certainly starting to get "up there" on the scale of "improbable"... Blink


Sounds like a Goonspiracy to me. First Tech, now sec status tags! There's no end to your sinister cartel ways!

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#193 - 2013-05-09 13:14:32 UTC
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
mynnna wrote:
So stepping past the argument for a bit, a few numbers for people who are actually interested in the changes for their own sake.

Turn-in processing fees are 3-6m per tag (or I'm assuming it's per tag rather than per batch, I didn't get the opportunity to test that). That's 3m for the tags closer to -10, up to 6m for the tags closer to 0, though. Which makes sense - CONCORD is no doubt fully aware of the phenomena of suicide ganking and that it will place extra demand for tags in the -5 to 0 range, and so naturally as demand is high they can charge more. Blink

As far as the spawn rate goes... that's hard to say. I got five NPCs (all Negotiators) in one past through an 11 belt system, one stop in each belt. I then got one NPC in the next 44 belts I visited over the next four systems. Whether that's an actual reflection of reality rather than being affected by test server quirks (all but the first system I visited were offline before I jumped in, perhaps that affects spawns in some way) is beyond me, so suffice it to say, the data is inconclusive.

Getting five identical spawns in a row in the same system is odd, though. Not impossible, but certainly starting to get "up there" on the scale of "improbable"... Blink


Sounds like a Goonspiracy to me. First Tech, now sec status tags! There's no end to your sinister cartel ways!


I was thinking about dominating the market through inflated buy orders and subsidizing Miniluv's activities by gouging everyone else on the price. Blink

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#194 - 2013-05-09 13:17:19 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Lady Areola Fappington wrote:
mynnna wrote:
So stepping past the argument for a bit, a few numbers for people who are actually interested in the changes for their own sake.

Turn-in processing fees are 3-6m per tag (or I'm assuming it's per tag rather than per batch, I didn't get the opportunity to test that). That's 3m for the tags closer to -10, up to 6m for the tags closer to 0, though. Which makes sense - CONCORD is no doubt fully aware of the phenomena of suicide ganking and that it will place extra demand for tags in the -5 to 0 range, and so naturally as demand is high they can charge more. Blink

As far as the spawn rate goes... that's hard to say. I got five NPCs (all Negotiators) in one past through an 11 belt system, one stop in each belt. I then got one NPC in the next 44 belts I visited over the next four systems. Whether that's an actual reflection of reality rather than being affected by test server quirks (all but the first system I visited were offline before I jumped in, perhaps that affects spawns in some way) is beyond me, so suffice it to say, the data is inconclusive.

Getting five identical spawns in a row in the same system is odd, though. Not impossible, but certainly starting to get "up there" on the scale of "improbable"... Blink


Sounds like a Goonspiracy to me. First Tech, now sec status tags! There's no end to your sinister cartel ways!


I was thinking about dominating the market through inflated buy orders and subsidizing Miniluv's activities by gouging everyone else on the price. Blink


One would think gankers preying on other gankers would make DCM happy....

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#195 - 2013-05-09 13:23:51 UTC
mynnna wrote:

Turn-in processing fees are 3-6m per tag (or I'm assuming it's per tag rather than per batch, I didn't get the opportunity to test that). That's 3m for the tags closer to -10, up to 6m for the tags closer to 0, though.
So it take 20 tags to go from -10.0 to 0.0 or 60-100 Million ISK, plus the price of the tags if you wan to buy them?

Sounds a bit much for your average ganker. PvPers and FW pilots... maybe not.
EvilweaselSA
GoonCorp
Goonswarm Federation
#196 - 2013-05-09 13:25:59 UTC  |  Edited by: EvilweaselSA
Malcanis wrote:
Gunner wrote:

You do realize the number of eve players that DIDN'T vote for you, now do you?



Yep. They have the reps they voted for to represent their perspective. Anyone who did put me on one of their voting choices should know exactly what I stand for, and it would be a gross betrayal of their trust to let them down.

I think you're not being a problem-solver here. Let's ask James315 who he cast his proxy ballot for all of highsec for, and see if you were on it.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#197 - 2013-05-09 13:46:12 UTC
Bi-Mi Lansatha wrote:
mynnna wrote:

Turn-in processing fees are 3-6m per tag (or I'm assuming it's per tag rather than per batch, I didn't get the opportunity to test that). That's 3m for the tags closer to -10, up to 6m for the tags closer to 0, though.
So it take 20 tags to go from -10.0 to 0.0 or 60-100 Million ISK, plus the price of the tags if you wan to buy them?

Sounds a bit much for your average ganker. PvPers and FW pilots... maybe not.


4x(6+3)+6*(4+5), so 90m from -10.

On the other hand your "average ganker" isn't really going to go much lower than -5, but because the cost is front loaded, it's 6*5+4*6, or 54m.

It'll inject a bit more profit motive into the activities of the "average ganker", I'd say. You can get 10-20 ganks in between 0 and -5, though, so the additional cost per gank is is actually relatively low.

Pending, of course, seeing what the market price of the tags is.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Manny Moons
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#198 - 2013-05-09 14:14:54 UTC
I won't bother with the tags unless and until I change professions. I can imagine using them for a one-time redemption of a character.
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#199 - 2013-05-09 15:20:04 UTC
mynnna wrote:
...On the other hand your "average ganker" isn't really going to go much lower than -5, but because the cost is front loaded, it's 6*5+4*6, or 54m.

It'll inject a bit more profit motive into the activities of the "average ganker", I'd say. You can get 10-20 ganks in between 0 and -5, though, so the additional cost per gank is is actually relatively low.

Pending, of course, seeing what the market price of the tags is.
Good points.
Lady Areola Fappington
#200 - 2013-05-09 16:49:25 UTC
Something I've noticed in this discussion from the disagreeing crowd...it's not consequences they want for a negative sec status, it's punishment. The consequence of a negative sec status is the whole outlaw, blinkred, facpo chasing you, etc. The current sec status redemption system is only seen as a punishment, because, frankly, it sucks. If shooting red crosses in null netted a plex once and awhile, the dissenting voices would be complaining that there's "no consequences" in being blinkyred under the current system.

EVE has never been about system driven punishment. It's always been a "If you've been wronged fix it yourself" kind of game, except in this one specific instance. Tags4Sec very elegantly puts the onus of punishing the wrongdoer right back where it belongs, in the hands of the wronged person.

You won't be able to depend on the system "ruining someone's day" for you anymore, re: sec status ratting.

7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided. --Eve New Player Guide