Intergalactic Summit

That's true. And yet, she freed more slaves than all your raids, your freedom fighters, and the invasion. You can understand a whole social and economic system can't be destroyed in just a few years, and specially not if the Minmatarr keep causing problems to it which make it harder to find compromises and work together. If you really wanted this war ended and your people freed, you'd work with the Empress in trying to free them. The problem is that the power structures you have built as well, your tribes, your clans, depend on them being captured so you can foster the idea of unity which the Minmatarr lack: you need us to be the wolves at the gates.



So, the propper way to solve the issue is to completely disregard the other side of the coin, ignore it: our laws, our customs, etc. Well, if you don't respect our ways, then I'll hold your Republic to be accountable for the "Elder Fleet". You are invaders and kidnappers, don't pretend to be otherwise, your "Elders" made you lose your moral highground.

You are the one who is incorrect. The war is not with an empire, but with the Matari. That war did not end with the fall of our empire, nor will it end until every Matari is free of the grasp of the Amarr Empire.




This is the only way you would have a decisive victory, by bombing us into extinction, by which point you will have wasted excessive amounts of resources with nothing left to reclaim and repurpose, leaving you weak and vulnerable. And even then, our race would live on, in those members of the Tribes not living in the Republic.

And you might want to consider how much the Federation's fleets would swell with Matari Federation Citizens ready to pounce in vengeance for their cousins in the Republic.



You poor things. Our hearts bleed for the difficulties your holders face as they learn to pour their own tea.

Seriously, do you really think we care one bit what kind of social and economic impact it will have on the Amarr Empire when they give us back our people? For what your Empire did to us, it's more merciful than what you deserve.



You think far too highly of yourselves. Our Tribe and clans have existed since long before even we took to the stars, as has our tribal unity. We learned before ever leaving Matar that we are at our strongest when we are united, and we have never forgotten that. Our unity has nothing to do with the Empire.



Fixed that for you.

Why should the Minmatar compromise with you? Literally from the first moment you encountered each other, it has always been the Amarr Empire who takes advantage of the Minmatar. You took their planets, their people, their freedom. You tried to take their culture, their customs, their history, their very identity and replace it with your own. When they refused to fall in line you took their lives. When they formed their own society, their own state, you demanded that CONCORD withhold recognition. Heideran talked a good game about peace but he still launched a war of conquest against the Jovians and when that failed and the Minmatar asserted their independence from the Empire's illegitimate control of their nation, he attempted his level best to quash the rebellion rather than grant their people the freedom they quite self-evidently desired.

The Minmatar have suffered over seven hundred years of irreparable abuse and another century of the Amarr Empire trying its level best to undermine their agency. You now have Imperial Royal Houses talking about reconquest and slaving raids into sovereign Minmatar territory. Why should the Minmatar compromise with you? As I've said before, they seem to be far less upset at the prospect of war than you claim to be. Karin Midular tried to compromise with the Empire and it didn't get her or the Republic very far at all - because the Empire, as the Empire does, simply took and took without giving anything back. The Minmatar have very little reason to compromise with you because firstly, it doesn't work and secondly, they end up becoming compromised.

If the Amarrians truly desire peace, then some drastic measures will have to be taken. If it's war they desire, then fine - just try and be honest about it.


This is a very common Imperial argument - to assert that the Minmatar depend on having the Amarr Empire as an enemy to survive. While this notion is fairly ridiculous to begin with, if it were true, I have to ask - whose fault is that? Who invaded the Minmatar Empire and subjected its citizens to seven hundred years of cultural abuse? Who taught them that brute force is a first response and not a last resort? Who taught them to use an external threat as a unifying factor? Who taught them the use of a redemptive concept (be it god or the spirits of the tribes) could be used to aleviate the guilt of morally reprehensible actions in service to a higher goal? Who taught them to make causes seem worth dying for -and killing for? Perhaps they weren't perfectly peaceful before the Empire found them but everything they know about violence on an interstellar scale, the Minmatar learnt from you.

If the Minmatar truly are monsters, they're monsters that you created, and this I'll grant you - Amarr are really good at that.


The Elders are a reaction to seven hundred years of the Amarr tunnelling so far into the moral bedrock we're going to be in danger of hitting the moral Mohorovicic discontinuity. Sure, they're no saints by any means, but the Amarr were always very good at dragging people down to their level.

Perhaps, as they are just now discovering, too good.

I honestly think that's what scares Amarrians the most in the modern age. They look around at all the ghastly mistakes they're directly responsible for - Equilibrium of Man, the Blood Raiders, Sansha's Nation and perhaps, yes, the Minmatar Republic - and they realise with a shiver of terror that they can't put all these genies back in their bottles.

It is an interesting case scenario, but I think you might forget that crusades and territorial annexation comes with almost no benefit at all for the first years or even decades. Even if the attacker manages to keep the adversary to use scorched earth tactics and keeps the industrial capacity in good shape, and even if the attacker can actually directly recruit manpower in the converted population - which usually drastically increases the risk of revolts and turmoil - it takes a considerable amount of time before said territories start to work at full capacity again. In the first years or decades, they are more likely to be a strain on the global synergy of the attacker than the other way around.

If speed is crucial as you say, then it might be a miscalculation to count on the conquered territories.




Oh, that argument again...

I would really like to see the face of Amarrian and Minmatar leaders if an emperor suddenly decided to release an edict freeing every Minmatar slave in the Empire.

While imperial Holders would be busy tearing each other apart over the remaining slaves of Amarr origin, seeing their economical power collapse, the Republic would crumble under the sheer weight of slaves. For wich a good percentage has probably been indoctrinated enough past so many generations to produce thousands of Abel Jarek duplicates.




I saddens me to see that people are still resorting to that logical fallacy.

Imperial territory spans over 40% of empire space. This is without counting Derelik and Khanid.



Could you define "your people" ? The definition seems to vary greatly depending on the people asked, or even depending on the Matari using the term.

What do you expect?

They believe in the Amarrian religion. Rejecting objective reality is essentially a prerequisite.

Indeed, Sepherim kindly desist from implying that Ixiris knows what honesty is, let alone has exhibited any. Also you might do well to stop deluding yourself that you are having any sort of discussion, in good faith or not, with any of these heathens. They know they have broken their oaths and treaties. You can hear it, listen to them, none of them is denying complicity in the attacks against the Faith they are spewing justifications and rationalisations.

They know they are guilty but lack the basic honesty to admit it to themselves, let alone anyone else. We should not seek to reclaim the Minmatar, those lineages that can be reclaimed are allready counted among the Faithfull for their credit. Declare the rest forsaken to God and let us dispose with all notions we are dealing with humans bound by laws and by their word.

Faithful, fool yourselves no longer. the Only peace Amarr Empire knows is the peace guaranteed by arms and fleets of the Faithful. Only honor these heathens know is the one their fear of retribution from those arms invokes from their craven hearts.

M.K.C.

You also believe in, and support, an Empire built upon the belief in the divine right of the Amarr to rule as given by your hateful, invisible God.

You can keep believing whatever it is that you like believing, I suppose.

Mssr. Ixiris thank you for establishing my case in the honesty of yourself and how far you fall from even attempting to reach any level to be described as such.

Seeking to refute anything you say mssr. Ixiris would indicate you are not a selfprofessed blowhard who counts it a victory when someone tires of your incessent lies and declines from further exchange.

As for your self admitted difficulty in reading comprehension, I would suggest seeking professional help, alas I have little reason to take you on your word.

I am not in support of this invasion in anyway but after countless conversations with you quietly listening to you describe old Mimatar traditions that go back long before the empires exposure to you they can be very brutal.

I need not name names but the quality of brutality exist almost everyone in one shape or form.

I was reading how in our past the exposure to another planet with human life shocked Amarrian religion to the core and it took decades to come to terms with the revelation.

Now here we are 700 years after first contact with the Matari people and the Empress for whatever reason Is pushing her house to invade. I would have hoped that after all her wisdom and power she has displayed to this point would lead her to be more creative with the reclaiming then methods we know will not help now.

I want the Matari to be redeemed, I want the Federation to be redeemed, I want all to be redeemed but not like this.

I hope should I be forced to see you on the battlefield Ava Starfire you will fight with honor and do your race credit as I must try and do mine.