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Possible upgrade from dominix to rattlesnake ?

First post
Author
Kosetzu
Aeons Multiplied
#21 - 2013-05-02 12:46:41 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Ah yes, this makes me remember to tell you guys something that should make you happy - we're going to increase calibration on all Navy Ships from 350 to 400. While it makes sense for Tech2 hulls to have less rig sots due to the specialized nature of the ships, Navy hulls are supposed to be an improvement over Tech1, but is not always the case right now due to rig / calibration restrictions.

Been thinking this was weird forever. Thanks for finally fixing it!

Will this also affect Pirate "Navy"? Hopefully it would but would be nice to know.

_________________________________________________________________

As for the original topic of this thread *ahem*... I would advice training up some gunnery or missile skills depending on if you want to go for the navy Dominix or the Rattlesnake. Just sentry dps isn't all that high and adding in some guns or missiles will (in my experience) make it so your drones gets aggro less often, and your overall dps and mission/anomaly/ratting time will improve.

There's also the fact that Dominix are more of an armor tanking ship (can be shield tanked somewhat), while the Rattlesnake is shield tanked. Each weapon system has advantages and disadvantages to them, so pick what suits your play style.

Missiles have travel time but doesn't need tracking related to your ship, but deals less damage on smaller targets because of the damage formula they have (calculated on hit). Turrets has optimal and falloff to think about, does instant damage but can miss in falloff sometimes and if enemies move too quickly in relation to your ship they won't be able to follow the target and hit it.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-05-02 12:52:32 UTC
I'm not sure what's happening with the rattle come BS rebalance but at the moment it seems the REGULAR domi (getting the 50% optimal/tracking bonus) is currently looking better than the navy and rattle.
Muad 'dib
The Nine Nine
#23 - 2013-05-02 13:44:30 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Ah yes, this makes me remember to tell you guys something that should make you happy - we're going to increase calibration on all Navy Ships from 350 to 400. While it makes sense for Tech2 hulls to have less rig sots due to the specialized nature of the ships, Navy hulls are supposed to be an improvement over Tech1, but is not always the case right now due to rig / calibration restrictions.


OMG.

where are you right now?

I have a hug in me i need to unleash all over you.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.

Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
#24 - 2013-05-02 14:10:24 UTC
Adiaforos Anousios wrote:
Can u plz correct me about tthe 2 conclusions i made for Rattlesnake vs Dominix ?


So let's see. In this thread you have told us:

1. You are new (likely low SP)
2. You don't understand game mechanics very well (Dominix changes confuse you). It's ok because well, you are new.
3. You watched some youtube videos and came to certain conclusions, even though numbers 1 and 2 are true.

Here are some things to think about

1. Given your SP level, you are nowhere near the full potential of your Dominix. A Battleship may be quick to get into, but it takes a long time to fly well.
2. Trying to train for a Rattlesnake will take far longer. You will have to train up a new tank (assuming you have been training armor now). and an entirely new DPS (missiles) and racial battleship.
3. The Rattlesnake has never been known as a "Fast" mission runner. Just an easy AFK mission runner. But drone AFK missions largely went out the window with the Changes to NPC aggression in Retribution. last winter.
4. The Rattlesnake is VERy expensive compared to a Dominix. So you are looking at a long return on investment.

Bottom line, the best advice I can give is slow down. It is a common noob mistake in EVE to rush into that next new ship sooner than you should. I did the same thing (also went Gallente so very similar path you are taking). In fact I remember eyeing the Rattlesnake about 3 months into the game after flying a Dominix awhile.

Your best bet at this point is to focus on making that Dominix the best it can be. Get T2 sentries (they rock), and then focus heavily on your core skills (tank, fitting skills). It takes awhile to get them solid, but they will make EVERY ship your fly better.

If you rush into new ship after new ship you will end up finding you can fly many ships poorly. Get your core solid and then every ship will fly well. I had a friend who made this mistake and ultimately quit. He was told Minmatar was the way to go. He rushed into a Hurricane and thought it sucked (poor gunnery skills meant he missed alot). So he decided a Maelstrom must be better (same problem). Got frustrated and quit within 5 months.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#25 - 2013-05-02 14:11:18 UTC
Dato Koppla wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Ah yes, this makes me remember to tell you guys something that should make you happy - we're going to increase calibration on all Navy Ships from 350 to 400. While it makes sense for Tech2 hulls to have less rig sots due to the specialized nature of the ships, Navy hulls are supposed to be an improvement over Tech1, but is not always the case right now due to rig / calibration restrictions.


Woot now mach can have a T2 dps rig and 2 50 calibration rigs!


I think you might be wanting an ambit rig more soon.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Adiaforos Anousios
EVE G-O-A-T-S
Herd.
#26 - 2013-05-02 18:03:48 UTC
Thanks everyone i really appreciate it ;)





At least u got cool news by reading a newbie post Lol
Col Arran
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-05-02 20:04:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Col Arran
I'm going to be perfectly honest with you here the Rattler is not a good boat for doing missions or anomalies for that matter. It suffers from 2 very fatal flaws and those are that its main weapon system can be destroyed by rats and its secondary weapons system is cruise missiles.

Every time you have to recall your drones to get aggro off them that's lost DPS and in the case of the rattler that's 80% of its DPS lost. Also cruise missiles are just slooowwwww for doing missions/anoms, they have a flight time which is a DPS loss in the time your missiles take to reach the target after the first volley and their explosion radius is massive meaning you won't be doing decent damage against anything but battleships.

If you want my honest advice, train for a Machariel. With meta 4 Autocannons I could easily outDPS a Rattlesnake let alone if I use my Tech 2s. Its speed is just amazing compared to the other battleships, 553m/s with an AB compared to the Rattler's 317m/s. This means you can easily speed tank a mission with minimal tank and blitz in just a few minutes. If you want to do anomalies then just put a medium shield booster on it with a boost amp, use an after burner and just specific tank to whatever rats your local 0.0 space has and enjoy 15mil+ ticks.

But I'm probably wasting my time as most people go for the easy to use Missile/Drone boat. See you back here in a few months when you're complaining about how long it takes you to complete missions/anomalies.
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#28 - 2013-05-02 20:21:14 UTC
I will make it as easy as possible:

RATTLESNAKE~475 mil for the Hull alone

  • Bigger possible tank
  • Lower capable DPS (even after Odyssey, it's only ~80 DPS increase to it's Cruise).
  • Even slower than the Domi

  • DOMINIX~80 mil for the Hull

  • Lower possible tank (but still plenty for LvL 4's)
  • Higher capable DPS (in application and range, and yes, even after the Odyssey "nerf").
  • Still slow as crap.

  • NAVY DOMINIX~350 mil for the Hull

  • Slightly better rehash of the Dominix, in every way (only time will tell if the NDomi will get the new Drone bonus).
  • The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

    Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".

    Ginger Barbarella
    #29 - 2013-05-02 20:44:47 UTC
    I'd second DeLindsay's post: if you're already in Domi, go Navy Domi. Better than regular Domi in just about every aspect: tank, drones, one extra medium slot. Well worth the extra isk *if* you're a drone rat (ie, all T2 including Sentries). The boat is a monster with T2 sentries and T2 drone module ffittings (Omni, DDA).

    "Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

    Cage Man
    Deep Core Mining Inc.
    Caldari State
    #30 - 2013-05-02 20:53:30 UTC
    I prefer the RS simply because i can have a huge active omnitank and still have drone and missile damage mods in the low slots.
    Tsukino Stareine
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #31 - 2013-05-02 21:21:14 UTC
    Col Arran wrote:
    I'm going to be perfectly honest with you here the Rattler is not a good boat for doing missions or anomalies for that matter. It suffers from 2 very fatal flaws and those are that its main weapon system can be destroyed by rats and its secondary weapons system is cruise missiles.

    Every time you have to recall your drones to get aggro off them that's lost DPS and in the case of the rattler that's 80% of its DPS lost. Also cruise missiles are just slooowwwww for doing missions/anoms, they have a flight time which is a DPS loss in the time your missiles take to reach the target after the first volley and their explosion radius is massive meaning you won't be doing decent damage against anything but battleships.

    If you want my honest advice, train for a Machariel. With meta 4 Autocannons I could easily outDPS a Rattlesnake let alone if I use my Tech 2s. Its speed is just amazing compared to the other battleships, 553m/s with an AB compared to the Rattler's 317m/s. This means you can easily speed tank a mission with minimal tank and blitz in just a few minutes. If you want to do anomalies then just put a medium shield booster on it with a boost amp, use an after burner and just specific tank to whatever rats your local 0.0 space has and enjoy 15mil+ ticks.

    But I'm probably wasting my time as most people go for the easy to use Missile/Drone boat. See you back here in a few months when you're complaining about how long it takes you to complete missions/anomalies.


    Another "mach is da best" post.

    Go do a sansha or guristas mission in a mach and come back to me when you manage to finish it when TDed to 10km fall off or permajammed.

    You use sentries in PvE now. Sentries stay in one place 2-3km away from your boat, they will not die unless you are extremely special.

    You will never need to recall sentries if you run MJD. Sentries don't get jammed (as far as I've seen) sentries don't get TDed (as far as I've seen).

    Cruise missiles are a secondary weapon system on the rattle, much like drones are secondary to the mach. You're not expecting them to do wondrous things, they just add a little extra punch.

    See you back in a few months when you're QQing about TD, damps and jams
    DeLindsay
    Galaxies Fall
    #32 - 2013-05-02 22:55:30 UTC  |  Edited by: DeLindsay
    Cage Man wrote:
    I prefer the RS simply because i can have a huge active omnitank and still have drone and missile damage mods in the low slots.


    As you can do with ANY BS using the tried and true 3-slot Active Shield tank. The Rattler has better resists so it's "easier" to pulse an XL Booster than with the Domi(s). However, with HG Crystals, ANY Battleship can take advantage of the 3-slot Active Shield tank while fitting for maximum gank, which is how the most efficient LvL 4 missioners do it. It's exp as those 3 modules are well over 2 bil, but hell the Pirate BS's like Mach/Vindi/Nightmare are 1.2-1.5bil for the hull anyway.

    EDIT: I should point out that I myself use the Rattler, Domi and several other ships for LvL 4's as there really isn't 1 single ship that's best for every single mission/NPC type. The Rattlesnake is awesome for what it is, a huge tanked Drone boat. The Domi is so versatile that can do just about anything. I have since gone onto a different beast for LvL 4's because frankly, if you're not fit for max gank (and you have the SP to back that up) you're doing LvL 4's wrong.

    The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

    Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".

    Garviel Tarrant
    Beyond Divinity Inc
    Shadow Cartel
    #33 - 2013-05-03 02:44:47 UTC
    Rattler is way overtanked for high sec missions

    Better to go with something with more gank.

    BYDI recruitment closed-ish

    Adiaforos Anousios
    EVE G-O-A-T-S
    Herd.
    #34 - 2013-05-03 10:02:16 UTC
    So the main conclusion is that both Rattlesnake and Navy are not that Great upgrades .

    Then what would be a strong upgrade for a sentry drone pliot ? or there is not a ''clear'' upgrade for such pilot ?

    Always concerning missions, not anomalies etc and after Skilling and getting the best from my dominix ..
    Tsukino Stareine
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #35 - 2013-05-03 10:59:49 UTC
    Would just stick with domi really. That new bonus is going to be really good for it.
    M'iranna
    Sanctum of Citizens
    #36 - 2013-05-03 11:10:51 UTC  |  Edited by: M'iranna
    Adiaforos Anousios wrote:
    Hello everyone i am actually a new player (3.5 m sp)

    Atm i am on a Dominix using Sentries + Mjd combo but i would like to know about a possible future upgrade..Would that be a similar Rattlesnake fit ? or what Else if not Rattle for a Drone (actually sentry drone) Pilot...i also saw the odyssey change for dominix and that confused me.. What is the most common upgrade for a dominix pilot?

    Thank you in advance

    Use 4 drone damage amplifiers and use the ship you have higher skills in. E.g. if you have level 5 in gallente battleship but only level 1 in caldari battleship, and also you don't have skills in cruise missiles, then there is no much reason to use a rattlesnake.
    And yes, the dominix will be a better drone boat after the expansion.
    Btw, you will probably have to use shield tank since the DDAs will take too much low slots. And for shield tank, the rattlesnake is better.
    But you also need at least 2 omnidirectional tracking links to be effective. After the expansion, you won't really need these for the dominix, well, maybe 1.
    Tsukino Stareine
    Garoun Investment Bank
    Gallente Federation
    #37 - 2013-05-03 12:40:31 UTC
    Ill probably still use 2 omnis after its changed just to see my gardes hit 60k XD
    Nagnor
    The Happy Shooters
    #38 - 2013-05-03 15:37:47 UTC
    Adiaforos Anousios wrote:
    So the main conclusion is that both Rattlesnake and Navy are not that Great upgrades .

    Then what would be a strong upgrade for a sentry drone pliot ? or there is not a ''clear'' upgrade for such pilot ?

    Always concerning missions, not anomalies etc and after Skilling and getting the best from my dominix ..


    It really depends on the criteria by which you value the upgrade. Personally I stepped into a RattleSnake with lowish SP early.

    The huge tank makes it very forgiving and easy going (especially if you go passive tanked). At the same time you can put a lot of damage mods in low without compromising the tank (much).
    Sure, the secondary weapon system is really secondary, but the 2 high utils slots are good for Drone Link Augmentors or Remote Rep. 100 km drone control range Big smile. When used with scouts (Hobgoblins), short ranged sentries (Gardes) and long ranged sentries (Bouncers or Wardens depending on mission) you got the full pallet short to long, frigs to BS and all combinations covered

    If you are low on SP consider using Faction Sentries. They cost a lot more, they do more damage than T1's (less then T2's), but most importantly they have double the shield and armor HP of T2's (2.4x T1) which means you can give them a lot more flight time (especially in combo with RR) which means that your effective dps is much higher.

    How are you currently running those lvl 4's? Is your tank holding or do you occasionally/frequently have to jump out to recharge? Having a good tank which doesn't require you to jump out means more efficient mission running.
    Adiaforos Anousios
    EVE G-O-A-T-S
    Herd.
    #39 - 2013-05-03 16:21:05 UTC
    Atm i havent noticed serious problems dealing with lvl4 missions i just would like to know if there are any specific sentry drone boats that would be a clear upgrade for such pilots .. But it seems that i am going to stay with dominix since iam low sp and switching is not going to help me even if i had more skills trained as a sentry drone pilot ;)

    Maybe when i finally get maximum advantages from dominix i will start training for pvp PP
    Nash MacAllister
    Anomalous Existence
    Initiative Mercenaries
    #40 - 2013-05-03 16:28:51 UTC
    Adiaforos Anousios wrote:
    So the main conclusion is that both Rattlesnake and Navy are not that Great upgrades .

    Then what would be a strong upgrade for a sentry drone pliot ? or there is not a ''clear'' upgrade for such pilot ?

    Always concerning missions, not anomalies etc and after Skilling and getting the best from my dominix ..


    The main conclusion is that whatever you decide, commit to a training plan that will maximize its effectiveness. Long ago, I decided I wanted to fly Rattlesnakes for L4 so I took the time to train missiles, and drones, and the respective BS skills. I did that because I like the ship and the play style it facilitates, although there are certainly other ships that folks would say are better for L4's. There are better ships, but there aren't better ships for how I wanted to play. And no, I have never AFK'd a single mission.

    As for the ship comparison, I think with the likely changes to the Domi and Navy Domi, you are really only looking at the Domi or the Rattlesnake. Hard to say what the Rattler will get for changes when the time comes, but I am hoping for something along the lines of the Domi. But do what you like and don't rely on other people to tell you the right way to play.

    FWIW, the Rattler has some excellent uses above and beyond L4 missions so don't let folks tell you it is just an AFK L4 drone boat, that simply isn't true. As for drones, I have found the SP I have spent in drones to be very well spent. I don't regret it at all.

    Yes, if you have to ask yourself the question, just assume we are watching you...

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