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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Experienced Players duel baiting in starter mission system

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J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#101 - 2013-05-14 04:48:13 UTC
ISD Etetia wrote:
J'Poll wrote:

That's why I already voice my opinion that ISD-Star should stop with mass monitoring the 2 help channels and have a full presence in noob systems. If they see suspicious behavior they can notify CCP.


I wish it was true that we were indeed mass monitoring the help channels, but truth is, that we are very limited on resources, and we need to use our time as efficiently as we can when we are on duty.

I do agree with you that a presence in rookie systems is a good idea, and we are in fact doing just that. Personally I always roam most populated rookie systems when I have the time, and keep an eye out for ISK Spamming, griefing, and other undesireable behavior.

This is something ISD STAR has been doing for years, and still is.

But when you consider how rarely actual issues arise with people harassing new players in the starter systems, it would not be worth the time to have officials actively "guarding" these areas. We are able to make a much bigger difference when assisting players, than by watching the undock ramp on a rookie station for a few hours.

If new players do feel they are being (or have been) harassed in the starter systems, we'd appreciate if you file a petition (Ingame: F12 > Create petition > Rules and Policies > Harassment) so the GM's can investigate, and take appropriate action.


Lysander Fairewell wrote:

This behavior is rampant in Uitra.


I'll make sure to stop by and keep an eye out


2 point about that.

Just your name in local scares off people. You should see how help channels after an ISD person spoke.

And new players dont know about the harasment rules in EVE and rookie chats. Let alone how to file a petition. So they wont petition as they likely dont know that CCP will protect them as nowhere that information is given to them.
Most will think that ALL of EVE is that bad and just dont play anymore.

Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy

Help channel: Help chat - Reloaded

Public roams channels: RvB Ganked / Redemption Road / Spectre Fleet / Bombers bar / The Content Club
Lysander Fairewell
Fluffy Butt Fleet
#102 - 2013-05-14 06:44:49 UTC
ISD Etetia wrote:
Lysander Fairewell wrote:

This behavior is rampant in Uitra.


I'll make sure to stop by and keep an eye out


Please do.

While you were busy telling people in Rookie Chat to speak English, actual rules were being violated.

: : - These Burning Lights - : : - The adventures and thoughts of a newbie in EVE Online.

http://burninglightseve.blogspot.com/
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#103 - 2013-05-14 19:49:06 UTC
Lysander Fairewell wrote:
ISD Etetia wrote:
Lysander Fairewell wrote:

This behavior is rampant in Uitra.


I'll make sure to stop by and keep an eye out


Please do.

While you were busy telling people in Rookie Chat to speak English, actual rules were being violated.


Sorry that was me using google translate to keep them busy while I bruised the newbs.

No tengo ningún estampillas de comida hoy, pero voy a la granja de mañana!
Rangh Ovaert
#104 - 2013-07-15 08:20:27 UTC
Interesting discussion...
In my opinion common sense should apply. Rookies are potential new customers for paying a monthly fee. Real world money enables CCP to keep up the quality and new content..which is in the interest of every eve player. And I'm not talking about WOW market growth.
Holdu Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2013-07-15 12:15:45 UTC
From the perspective of a complete EVE newbie (albeit with experience in other PvP-heavy MMOs):

Disclaimer: I almost fell for the can bait. This thing is really nasty.

Yesterday two suspect-marked ships were parking in Clellinon. They were obviously aiming at complete morons, because they were open about their baiting in the zone channel. But then, probably most newbies had the rookie channel open, so were not even seeing this discussion ;)

The main issue is that most of other PvP oriented games have either tiered approach, or level matching, or level bolster, or, at the very least, a rookie area where newbies can PvP among themselves before they go out there where vets fight. So, the natural reaction for a newbie in a starting area is: you see someone marked for PvP, you start shooting, cause you expect this person is also a rookie and you expect an even fight. So from this point of view both duelling baits and being suspect-marked in a rookie area is a trick. And I do not know capabilities of other ships and their equipment, so it is really difficult to judge the gap.

But then, maybe being instashot at the very start of the game is a good eye opener? Someone who would ragequit after falling to such bait would probably sub for a month or two and quit anyway.
Fey Ivory
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2013-07-15 12:58:49 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
And again, how is politely asking someone "hey, can I shoot you" a trick?

Im not sure where to start, as a experienced player you dont have any buisness in a rookie system to start with... and the Rookie have no concept what so ever how outclassed the Rookie can be, in the Rookies mind, the person might think i have a chanse, both you and me know, if a Veteran fights/duals a Rookie, with coresponding ships, we both know the outcome, it will be just be a ****, its not a duel, one of the players wont have a chanse in hell, and if you dont realice that , a Rookie dont have concepts about eve that we take for granted, not to mention, that the rookie can be podded at the end of the duel, only enforcing push ower ewen more, so NO NO and NO
Babalon Bullveye
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2013-07-15 18:22:45 UTC
It's pretty obvious what they're doing, I see the humor in it, but it's only about as cool as a 13-yo pissing in a 4-yos cereal can get.

http://i675.photobucket.com/albums/vv115/Babalon84/AH%20Junk/rookieball_zps377cdc79.png
Elliavir
Miskatonic Mercantile
#108 - 2013-07-16 04:25:36 UTC
Wolverine Stormrider wrote:
Call Rollard wrote:


If I was a newbie in EVE who played for an hour, I doubt I'd even know what a duel is. And I accept it and find myself blown up and podded I'd wonder what the hell happened. It's tricking newbies into fights in rookie systems. You can trick newbies outside the starter systems however you can not in the rookie systems.


Quoted for truth.

The starter systems are intended to be a 'kiddie pool' as it where before they get tossed screaming into the chum and shark filled waters. Someone sitting in a tech two frigate and duel spamming people that may have only played the game for all of 20 minutes total isn't what CCP wants.

BTW the ol' "Free Stuff" can trick has been around since beta much as I remember. Dueling just lets them not even bother with the can and maybe get a bunch more free kills.

In the mean time if you find someone duel spamming newbies, bump them away from the station, It annoys the heck out of 'em. :D


^ and ^

Also note that most EVE players are not complete newbies to online gaming, despite being rookies in EVE. And in a heck of a lot of other online games, a 'duel' is a safe, loss-free way to PvP. You get nothing, but you risk nothing.

'Duel' in EVE is a completely different thing - different enough that I wish CCP had picked a different term to describe "agreeing to fight someone else and mutually absolving each other of all game system repercussions for ship loss and podding". Definitely more in line with the classic meaning of a duel, but the term has been so heavily used in other games for safety-on PvP that it's almost the default definition now for some gamers.
BiscuitMonsterr
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#109 - 2013-07-16 08:27:30 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
I for one, am confused as to how politely asking "Excuse, me good sir, would you terribly mind allowing me to shoot at you" aka a Duel constitutes a "trick."

Second, is the rule "you can't tricknewbies into being able to shoot them" or is it "you can't PvP in the rookie systems?"

Because one of those is a well designed rule for protecting newbies (the kind of rule I suggested repeatedly in another thread like this one), and one requires a definition of both "newbies" and "trick" to be effective at preventing bad behavior.


Stop being ****, it's unbecoming.


Spamming duel invites in newbie systems at anyone who undocks, where newbies have no real clue about the UI as a whole and are struggling with their first ship/mission is terrible and only ******* morons would do that. I'm sure you don't have trouble figuring that out.


Did you actually read the post you're replying to? I'm suggesting that "No PvP at all in Rookie Systems" is the better rule, and the rule that should be promulgated because then there can be no excuses. Why are you so insistent that it be otherwise?

And again, how is politely asking someone "hey, can I shoot you" a trick?

Here's the problem with trying to limit the newbie system protection to only "newbies" who have been "tricked." Given that, per the rules available today, it is legal to duel non-newbies in newbie systems, isn't sitting on the undock only shooting those people you don't think are newbies (which, since "newbie" status is undefined and not something players can check, you'll probably get some wrong) legal?

The bad rule (the one on the wiki) is like a speed limit that says "There is a speed limit on this stretch of highway, we will not tell you what it is, but it's definitely above 25 mph." Sure, you can avoid getting a ticket by going 25mph, but if the real speed limit is 75mph, the badly written rule is going to cause crashes as some people will be going 25 and some 75 (if they've figured out the real limit), if it's actually 26mph it's going to cause a lot of people who aren't intending to break the rules to get tickets.


It's more like a learner drivers car park than a highway, though. Why ferrari drivers want to go tearing up the asphalt there at all is beyong me.
Marc Callan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2013-07-16 09:07:41 UTC
Issue: if you're typing something into a chat channel when the duel message pops up, you can end up tapping the space bar and finding yourself having accepted a duel without even realizing it. I know I've seen dialog boxes flash up while I was typing something into a corp channel and had a sense of dread about what that dialog was.

In normal space, yeah, you know to be careful about that. But let me tell you, if you're a newbie, still trying to figure out the interface, hovering on the edge of information overload just learning how to command your rookie ship, it's easy to make mistakes. And maybe even easier if you get sucked into a convo and get a duel-invite spam in the middle of it. Which, come to think of it, could be an extra nasty trick the griefers could use: convo a newbie, ask a question, and send out the invite while he's typing out his answer; hey presto, a duel has just been initiated!

That's probably why the enforcers don't accept people trying to rule-lawyer their way out of getting smacked down for griefing people in rookie systems.

"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt
Holdu Gaterau
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2013-07-16 11:25:32 UTC
There should be something like a global opt-out setting for duels, so you could tick it and refuse all duel invites. If it was possible to mark it opt-out when creating a new char, it would help. Then people sending duel invite could receive a popup "this user opted out of duels, if you want to duel with this player, send him a private message".
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2013-07-16 14:56:44 UTC
Holdu Gaterau wrote:
There should be something like a global opt-out setting for duels, so you could tick it and refuse all duel invites.
There is, check your options.