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Ship destroyed by Customs while offline
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Loko Fouskous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-05-01 01:36:24 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Loko Fouskous wrote:
You are right, it's not the correct description. A rare occasion that was not predicted by the design would be a little better.


What makes you think this isn't working as intended? You logged off, a NPC pointed you (in this case, because you were hauling contraband) before you could e-warp, and the NPCs killed you. Logoff timers working as intended.

If it were otherwise, logoffski would be the new way to evade customs.
10: Warp to gate
20: IF Customs Hassling you GOTO 40, ELSE 30
30: GOTO 10
40: Logoffski
50: Log on, GOTO 10


I agree with your arguments, with a few points. I did not log off. I lost connection. I was not trying to evade anything,
I did not even know I was carrying illegal things.
I am saying that developers did not expect an instance were you lose your ship this way. The system is trying to avoid getting you killed if you are not in combat and get disconnected.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#22 - 2013-05-01 02:07:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Loko Fouskous wrote:
RubyPorto wrote:
Loko Fouskous wrote:
You are right, it's not the correct description. A rare occasion that was not predicted by the design would be a little better.


What makes you think this isn't working as intended? You logged off, a NPC pointed you (in this case, because you were hauling contraband) before you could e-warp, and the NPCs killed you. Logoff timers working as intended.

If it were otherwise, logoffski would be the new way to evade customs.
10: Warp to gate
20: IF Customs Hassling you GOTO 40, ELSE 30
30: GOTO 10
40: Logoffski
50: Log on, GOTO 10


I agree with your arguments, with a few points. I did not log off. I lost connection. I was not trying to evade anything,
I did not even know I was carrying illegal things.
I am saying that developers did not expect an instance were you lose your ship this way. The system is trying to avoid getting you killed if you are not in combat and get disconnected.

That is incorrect. The system is working as intended.

Furthermore since you cannot distinguish between a voluntary log off and a disconnection a harsh penalty is required to prevent willful abuse.

You made mistakes prior to the alleged "disconnection". Had you not made those mistakes you would have been fine.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Loko Fouskous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-05-01 02:40:59 UTC

[/quote]
That is incorrect. The system is working as intended.

Furthermore since you cannot distinguish between a voluntary log off and a disconnection a harsh penalty is required to prevent willful abuse.

You made mistakes prior to the alleged "disconnection". Had you not made those mistakes you would have been fine.[/quote]


Allow me to disagree.
Online games are made to be played with you present making the decisions. The designed consequence of my mistake was a fine of 20.000. The result of not being there to pay it due to my disconnection and, please dont call it alleged, was a loss of 100 mil.
As far as I can find information about it, the ship is destroyed when you attack customs or when you try to escape. The ship e-warped away on its own. The design was to save it, not get it killed. It worked as intended with a result that was not intended.

Again reading a lot about the mechanics, and ruIes, I insist that this case was not expected to happen or predicted.
But ofcource you have to take my word for it, as the kill log does not proove that I did not open fire or try to escape in a way.

I would be happy to hear the thoughts of a developer on this, if any.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#24 - 2013-05-01 03:07:40 UTC
Loko Fouskous wrote:
The designed consequence of my mistake was a fine of 20.000.
…or the loss of your ship, should you try to evade that fine. Unwillingly or not, you tried to evade it, and with no-one at the wheel, the result was predictable.

Quote:
Again reading a lot about the mechanics, and ruIes, I insist that this case was not expected to happen or predicted.
But ofcource you have to take my word for it, as the kill log does not proove that I did not open fire or try to escape in a way.
Your ship tried to ewarp away, so whether you wanted to or not, it falls squarely in the realm of the “try to escape” clause. Mechanics-wise, the game doesn't particularly care if a disconnection was voluntary or not (nor should it, since the abuse factor would be enormous) so it was treated as a logoffski-based attempt at evading justice.
Longestnameyouveeverread inyourlifeha
Doomheim
#25 - 2013-05-01 03:13:34 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Loko Fouskous wrote:
You are right, it's not the correct description. A rare occasion that was not predicted by the design would be a little better.


What makes you think this isn't working as intended? You logged off, a NPC pointed you (in this case, because you were hauling contraband) before you could e-warp, and the NPCs killed you. Logoff timers working as intended.

If it were otherwise, logoffski would be the new way to evade customs.
10: Warp to gate
20: IF Customs Hassling you GOTO 40, ELSE 30
30: GOTO 10
40: Logoffski
50: Log on, GOTO 10


I have refined your algorithm:

10: Warp to gate
20: IF Customs Hassling you GOTO 40
30: GOTO 10
40: Logoffski
50: Log on, GOTO 10
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#26 - 2013-05-01 03:15:59 UTC
Loko Fouskous wrote:
My Noctis was in a warp to a gate when I lost my internet conection.

When I logged back in again, I found my ship destoyed. The kill log said it was a Customs ship that did it.
From what I can presume, when arriving at the gate, Customs found some illegal drugs I had forgot to jettison from the loot of a mission. But why the ship was destoyed is a mystery to me.
Could it be that the ship auto warped out due to the loss of conection and Customs saw that as an act of aggression?
Beeing stoped at the gate happened to me before and it was just a case of a small fine.

I filed a petition for reimbursement describing the event along with the kill log, and made a bug report to help fix this, because in my humble opinion, this was not a resolt of my actions, but a tiny fault of game mecanics, under rare circumstances. And its not in line with the, safety of your ship if you are away from battle and you happen to have a sudden internet problem, policy.

The petition, was kindly refused and the loss was not reimbursed.

Although I understand that I can not prove that this was not due to some other kind of action in my part, the resolt is a bit of frustration, along with some loss of intrest for devoting time in EVE, in fear that something like this can happen again, on a greater scale.

I am confident that people working on those sort of issues are intrested on making sure they find and solve those problems when they occur, that is why I am posting the event, along with my bug report.

Thank you for taking the time to read.



Blue Pill: never even once.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Loko Fouskous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-05-01 03:19:17 UTC
[/quote]Your ship tried to ewarp away, so whether you wanted to or not, it falls squarely in the realm of the “try to escape” clause. Mechanics-wise, the game doesn't particularly care if a disconnection was voluntary or not (nor should it, since the abuse factor would be enormous) so it was treated as a logoffski-based attempt at evading justice.[/quote]

I see...
Thank for your approach and the reasoning you are giving it.
I understand the need to find a working system that is abuse safe.
And in an effort to be efficient it can become unjust.
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#28 - 2013-05-01 03:21:51 UTC
or just don't carry drugs in Empire

or just stop flying stuff you can't afford to lose

or just transfer all your ISK and assets to some random noob that willingly PvP's, because (unlike you) I actually validate his existence, and want him to keep playing.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Loko Fouskous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-05-01 03:33:28 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
or just don't carry drugs in Empire

or just stop flying stuff you can't afford to lose

or just transfer all your ISK and assets to some random noob that willingly PvP's, because (unlike you) I actually validate his existence, and want him to keep playing.


There is no need to be rude. I'm here asking people their opinion and explanation of game mechanics. I am still learning to play, and still have a lot to learn. That's why I picked up things that caused all this.

If you validate my existence and want me to keep playing, help me understand, like so many kind people already have.
Jarod Garamonde
Jolly Codgers
Get Off My Lawn
#30 - 2013-05-01 03:54:02 UTC
Loko Fouskous wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
or just don't carry drugs in Empire

or just stop flying stuff you can't afford to lose

or just transfer all your ISK and assets to some random noob that willingly PvP's, because (unlike you) I actually validate his existence, and want him to keep playing.


There is no need to be rude. I'm here asking people their opinion and explanation of game mechanics. I am still learning to play, and still have a lot to learn. That's why I picked up things that caused all this.

If you validate my existence and want me to keep playing, help me understand, like so many kind people already have.


I'm not being rude..... if you don't have thick enough skin to realize that (I mean, especially when it's me.... I'm almost never serious, and over 60% of the playerbase knows this, by now), and joke back, you're either too new to get it, or you are too stubborn to ever get it, in which case,you should prolly download Aion, and biomass your toon, right now.

That moment when you realize the crazy lady with all the cats was right...

    [#savethelance]
Loko Fouskous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2013-05-01 03:58:17 UTC
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
Loko Fouskous wrote:
Jarod Garamonde wrote:
or just don't carry drugs in Empire

or just stop flying stuff you can't afford to lose

or just transfer all your ISK and assets to some random noob that willingly PvP's, because (unlike you) I actually validate his existence, and want him to keep playing.


There is no need to be rude. I'm here asking people their opinion and explanation of game mechanics. I am still learning to play, and still have a lot to learn. That's why I picked up things that caused all this.

If you validate my existence and want me to keep playing, help me understand, like so many kind people already have.


I'm not being rude..... if you don't have thick enough skin to realize that (I mean, especially when it's me.... I'm almost never serious, and over 60% of the playerbase knows this, by now), and joke back, you're either too new to get it, or you are too stubborn to ever get it, in which case,you should prolly download Aion, and biomass your toon, right now.



Sad
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#32 - 2013-05-01 04:06:34 UTC
thats a problem without a clean solution. You can't make people invulnerable if they log out for obvious reasons.

like my grandma always said: a sandbox requires stable internet connection

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Loko Fouskous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-05-01 04:23:16 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
thats a problem without a clean solution. You can't make people invulnerable if they log out for obvious reasons.

like my grandma always said: a sandbox requires stable internet connection
.

Thank you.
A plain and simple explanation.
Without questioning my honesty or intent.

There are pilots that are wise and gentle in here after all.
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#34 - 2013-05-01 04:57:51 UTC
Loko Fouskous wrote:
The Cake wrote:
No activity in eve is completely safe, even station trading isn't quite 100% safe. It will eventually happen again on a much larger scale. Just get your income up and eventually it won't matter as much.

Gotta roll with the punches and learn not to get hit.


Thank you for your kind words. EVE's cruelty is entertaining. A little bug that's not recognized is much more scary.


Moving drugs is always a risk.

The career agent tutorials strongly suggest leaving the boosters in the container unless you are willing to deal with the consequences of carrying them.

As for your ship loss ... many others have lost ships due to internet disconnects for all sorts of reasons. If CCP gave everyone back their ships, everyone would claim a disconnect, or everyone would just yank their network cable if they were about to lose a ship.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
Loko Fouskous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2013-05-01 05:08:06 UTC


As for your ship loss ... many others have lost ships due to internet disconnects for all sorts of reasons. If CCP gave everyone back their ships, everyone would claim a disconnect, or everyone would just yank their network cable if they were about to lose a ship.
[/quote]


Hehe - I understand, tnx.
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