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Jita Park Speakers Corner

 
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Proposal for CSM Chairman, Secretary.

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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#201 - 2013-05-05 08:54:49 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
What I find Ironic is that if it wasn't for Frying Doom posting then Jita Park would be a graveyard Big smile


When we get our badges, there will be more ~communication~

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#202 - 2013-05-05 18:27:03 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Srs tho, we're all working together very nicely, and there's a very good atmosphere in the CSM8 channel.


Have you had progod and Sort in there together yet?

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#203 - 2013-05-05 19:04:54 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Srs tho, we're all working together very nicely, and there's a very good atmosphere in the CSM8 channel.


Have you had progod and Sort in there together yet?


Funnily enough they never seem to be online at the same time.


Draw what conclusions from that you will.



e: since I realized after posting people probably will misinterpret it, I'm making the joke that they're actually secretly the same person ok.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2013-05-05 20:25:28 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
...PS We're pretty much decided on who's going to do what; we promise to make as many people as angry as possible with our decision.
Lol It is nice to have a goal.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#205 - 2013-05-05 21:17:49 UTC
CSM8 is not communicating, why don't you talk to players?

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Frying Doom
#206 - 2013-05-05 23:19:09 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
CSM8 is not communicating, why don't you talk to players?

Considering almost every CSM candidate picked out CSM7s lack of communication as its biggest problem. Yet you still seem to be under the delusion that you communicated well.

While I did enjoy your article in The Mittani.com you once again missed how we got stuck with the STV system. That alone shows how poor the communication from CSM7 was, not to mention a lack of posting in these forums.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#207 - 2013-05-06 21:12:37 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
CSM8 is not communicating, why don't you talk to players?

Considering almost every CSM candidate picked out CSM7s lack of communication as its biggest problem. Yet you still seem to be under the delusion that you communicated well.

While I did enjoy your article in The Mittani.com you once again missed how we got stuck with the STV system. That alone shows how poor the communication from CSM7 was, not to mention a lack of posting in these forums.

Frying Doom: CSM8 Apologist.

Why did you sell out the players to the CSM? Are you really connected to Goonswarm and poisoning Mike's chances at the chair to ensure mynnna gets it?

It makes a lot of sense now

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
None ofthe Above
#208 - 2013-05-06 21:41:48 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
What I find Ironic is that if it wasn't for Frying Doom posting then Jita Park would be a graveyard Big smile


When we get our badges, there will be more ~communication~


Badges? Why do you need steenkin' badges?

The only end-game content in EVE Online is the crap that makes you rage quit.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#209 - 2013-05-06 21:47:39 UTC
None ofthe Above wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Prince Kobol wrote:
What I find Ironic is that if it wasn't for Frying Doom posting then Jita Park would be a graveyard Big smile


When we get our badges, there will be more ~communication~


Badges? Why do you need steenkin' badges?


Because badges also denote things like Jabber access and being allowed to attend meetings.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Frying Doom
#210 - 2013-05-06 22:57:55 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
CSM8 is not communicating, why don't you talk to players?

Considering almost every CSM candidate picked out CSM7s lack of communication as its biggest problem. Yet you still seem to be under the delusion that you communicated well.

While I did enjoy your article in The Mittani.com you once again missed how we got stuck with the STV system. That alone shows how poor the communication from CSM7 was, not to mention a lack of posting in these forums.

Frying Doom: CSM8 Apologist.

Why did you sell out the players to the CSM? Are you really connected to Goonswarm and poisoning Mike's chances at the chair to ensure mynnna gets it?

It makes a lot of sense now

And yet another dodge of how we ended up with 3 members of the CSM deciding we should end up with an STV system, that elected 10 Null sec members.

Good job.Lol

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#211 - 2013-05-07 09:23:14 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:
CSM8 is not communicating, why don't you talk to players?

Considering almost every CSM candidate picked out CSM7s lack of communication as its biggest problem. Yet you still seem to be under the delusion that you communicated well.

While I did enjoy your article in The Mittani.com you once again missed how we got stuck with the STV system. That alone shows how poor the communication from CSM7 was, not to mention a lack of posting in these forums.

Frying Doom: CSM8 Apologist.

Why did you sell out the players to the CSM? Are you really connected to Goonswarm and poisoning Mike's chances at the chair to ensure mynnna gets it?

It makes a lot of sense now

And yet another dodge of how we ended up with 3 members of the CSM deciding we should end up with an STV system, that elected 10 Null sec members.

Good job.Lol

yet another dodge of me answering that question in like 5 threads. You need to come up with a new bead in the Rosary of Denial

Also, CCP Xhagen is not on the CSM, it was his decision.

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM
Frying Doom
#212 - 2013-05-07 10:15:37 UTC
Alekseyev Karrde wrote:

yet another dodge of me answering that question in like 5 threads. You need to come up with a new bead in the Rosary of Denial

Also, CCP Xhagen is not on the CSM, it was his decision.

So you are saying that CCP Xhagen, stuck us with the STV, and that 3 members of the CSM supported this move.

Well at least we finally cleared that up.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#213 - 2013-05-07 13:20:31 UTC
Actually Frying Doom, that would only be your interpretation of it, and I'd wager that it would be a willfully wrong interpretation at that.
Just like your inability to show how a "HS Chair" would do anything different from a "NS Chair" by the virtue of where the chair might use the most of his/her time, your inability to show how CSM7 was eternally bad and did not say a word and was the worst CSM in history, your inability to show how STV is so horrible is actually a good argument to why it's incorrect.

For CSM8, 49 702 votes are represented on the council. In CSM7, that same number is 44 296. I'm not sure if you can add/subtract, but that's a difference of 5 406 voters represented.
To further show why you're bad:
By STV, all CSM8 representatives used the votes necessary (And not a single more) to get a seat.
For CSM7, The Mittani spent 7 593 votes sending a message (Had he only gotten 2 464 votes, he'd be alternate). If the CSM7 votes for candidates that actually became representatives had been spent in a manner that would assure as many representatives as possible, all 14 candidates could have been representatives (So no need for alternates) with the same number of votes as Seleene (The lowest vote-scorer among "full seats"), and STILL have 4 466 votes to fraud away, or w/e.
To make matters even worse, if we were to say that all 14 CSM members had full seats in CSM7, 26 348 votes were wasted (Overflow) in the CSM7 election.

When you try to paint STV in a bad light, try to do the numbers first. On CSM7, a full 14 813 votes were cast for a candidate who did not get a seat. Furthermore, 26 348 votes were effectively overflow votes compared to the lowest vote-getter on the council. Only 17 948 votes decided who would be delegates (Full and alternate in total).

Compare that to CSM8 and STV, please.
One of them is able to pass for democracy, the other is not.
Go figure which one you advocate.

Cool
Frying Doom
#214 - 2013-05-07 14:13:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Actually Frying Doom, that would only be your interpretation of it, and I'd wager that it would be a willfully wrong interpretation at that.
So then what was Alekseyev Karrde saying above? you seem very good at ridicule how about you tell me that?
Alphea Abbra wrote:
Just like your inability to show how a "HS Chair" would do anything different from a "NS Chair" by the virtue of where the chair might use the most of his/her time, your inability to show how CSM7 was eternally bad and did not say a word and was the worst CSM in history, your inability to show how STV is so horrible is actually a good argument to why it's incorrect.

Actually as I said before and many times, the PR value of a Hi-sec Chairman for the majority of the player base would be invaluable, rather than just another Null sec Chairman. If CSM7 was so wonderful, can you explain why almost every CSM8 candidate stated there level of communication and transparency was so poor?

Alphea Abbra wrote:
For CSM8, 49 702 votes are represented on the council. In CSM7, that same number is 44 296. I'm not sure if you can add/subtract, but that's a difference of 5 406 voters represented.
To further show why you're bad:
By STV, all CSM8 representatives used the votes necessary (And not a single more) to get a seat.
For CSM7, The Mittani spent 7 593 votes sending a message (Had he only gotten 2 464 votes, he'd be alternate). If the CSM7 votes for candidates that actually became representatives had been spent in a manner that would assure as many representatives as possible, all 14 candidates could have been representatives (So no need for alternates) with the same number of votes as Seleene (The lowest vote-scorer among "full seats"), and STILL have 4 466 votes to fraud away, or w/e.
To make matters even worse, if we were to say that all 14 CSM members had full seats in CSM7, 26 348 votes were wasted (Overflow) in the CSM7 election.

When you try to paint STV in a bad light, try to do the numbers first. On CSM7, a full 14 813 votes were cast for a candidate who did not get a seat. Furthermore, 26 348 votes were effectively overflow votes compared to the lowest vote-getter on the council. Only 17 948 votes decided who would be delegates (Full and alternate in total).

First you exclude the votes received by The Mittani then you use them in your example, you might want to decide if they were part of the election or not.

So 14813 votes were wasted in CSM7, and you claim none were wasted in CSM8, nice thing to claim without the actual ballots, also it would mean that the 14th member actually received the exact amount of transfer votes that he required and none extra.

Oh and as I have said before the STV system is good just not in low voter turn out elections as CSM6 claimed it would hand the CSM to the blocs, and low and behold we have 10 Null sec representatives and 2 from the Wormhole bloc.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#215 - 2013-05-07 14:41:17 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
So then what was Alekseyev Karrde saying above? you seem very good at ridicule how about you tell me that?
My guess is "Xhagen made the final decision based on years of discussions with various CSMs and CCP" would be an honest interpretation of the statement.
Quote:
Actually as I said before and many times, the PR value of a Hi-sec Chairman for the majority of the player base would be invaluable, rather than just another Null sec Chairman.
Yeah, and if you didn't just state it as fact and y'know... actually made a sound argument about it, I might care.
Quote:
If CSM7 was so wonderful, can you explain why almost every CSM8 candidate stated there level of communication and transparency was so poor?
First, I'd not say CSM7 was wonderful. I feel my vote for Hans was well worth it and my other votes less so, and the CSM7 overall decent. What you quoted wasn't an endorsement for CSM7 either, but rather a comment on your inability to back up the point that CSM7 was horrible.

Quote:
First you exclude the votes received by The Mittani then you use them in your example, you might want to decide if they were part of the election or not.

Are we even reading the same post? I never excluded them in the first place.
Quote:
So 14813 votes were wasted in CSM7, and you claim none were wasted in CSM8, nice thing to claim without the actual ballots, also it would mean that the 14th member actually received the exact amount of transfer votes that he required and none extra.

Actually I assumed the number in the dev. blog was ready for use, but going back and looking it might not be so. My point will stand as long as fewer than ~5k votes were wasted in the CSM8 election.

QUOTED FROM THE POST ABOVE AND NOT FORMATTED DUE TO QUOTE LIMIT ===
Oh and as I have said before the STV system is good just not in low voter turn out elections as CSM6 claimed it would hand the CSM to the blocs, and low and behold we have 10 Null sec representatives and 2 from the Wormhole bloc.
=== END OF QUOTE FROM THE POST ABOVE AND FORMAT LACKS BECAUSE OF FORUM QUOTE LIMITS

That sounds more of a problem with CCP not getting the act together with announcing/advertising the vote, and the website being borked and everything. If all the HS people are dissatisfied with a system that is more proportional to the voters, maybe they should vote?
Frying Doom
#216 - 2013-05-07 14:45:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all.

If the history of this game has taught us anything it is that the more of a lobby the CSM is or the more of a CCP cheerleader, the more attractive unsubbing has become to actually voicing concerns.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#217 - 2013-05-07 14:55:22 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all.

If the history of this game has taught us anything it is that the more of a lobby the CSM is or the more of a CCP cheerleader, the more attractive unsubbing has become to actually voicing concerns.
You fail to address where this is the fault of CSM7 (Or CSM8).
If you're dissatisfied that the CSM is more representative to the votes cast, argue against STV.
If you're dissatisfied that the votes cast aren't representative of where most people live, argue that CCP should do a better job advertising the CSM elections than they did this time.
OR do what NS and WH in general has done: Organise.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#218 - 2013-05-07 15:10:07 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all.

If the history of this game has taught us anything it is that the more of a lobby the CSM is or the more of a CCP cheerleader, the more attractive unsubbing has become to actually voicing concerns.


Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet.

Conversely, CSM 6...

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Alphea Abbra
Project Promethion
#219 - 2013-05-07 15:16:42 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
A lot of people still do not actually know what the CSM is let alone why they should vote, and those that do know, know that the CSM is always full of null members and this year being just as bad. You have to give people a reason to vote, otherwise all that will happen is the CSM will lose what power it had with the player base and stop having any purpose at all.

If the history of this game has taught us anything it is that the more of a lobby the CSM is or the more of a CCP cheerleader, the more attractive unsubbing has become to actually voicing concerns.


Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet.

Conversely, CSM 6...

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
- wheeze -
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH ahah AHAHAH
- pant -
Eheheheh.

I like how your application of FD's logic is more internally consistent than his own application of it.
Varius Xeral
Doomheim
#220 - 2013-05-07 15:46:21 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Since CSM7 has seen the greatest ever rise in subs, then by that metric they are the least cliquey, non-cheerleady CSM yet.

Conversely, CSM 6...


Hahaha.

Not really fair arguing like that; you need to handicap yourself to keep it competitive.

Official Representative of The Nullsec Zealot Cabal