EVE General Discussion

Oh I dunno... freewill is the soup of the day.

What price do you pay for living in safety under CONCORD's watchful eye?

How much did your stations cost?

Exactly 15 dollars U.S.

Right, because your POS will still be making moongoo after it's been RF'd or destroyed.

It's one of the best income generating activities for organizations because the content and extraction method are both complimentary for groups.

Again, Tippia's argument is very specifically directed at people making a very specific complaint about the supposed strategic insurmountably of moon income, a complaint that has been proven moot many times for many reasons.

If you continue to attempt to apply the reasoning out of context, then you will continue to confuse yourself.

fair enough.

It's confusing to follow because there are so many moving pieces to the conversation and ice can be done solo.

and if one were mini-maxing time spent for sheer isk on an individual pilot basis, there are non-industrial activities that currently have all forms of industry beat by a mile. What we really need is a universe wide buff to industry. *MAYBE* that's what we're getting through the resource shake-up and whatever CCP's hinting at for the post-Odyssey expansion. Certainly making ice more valuable could be a buff to industry even if it turns out to be a nerf to a relaxed play style.

An attack could come at any time so yes, those fleets are ready 23.5/7.

Have you? In the span of a year the entire south and east have changed hands. Against All Authorities is dead and SOLAR fleet just lost their home. Over half of nullsec has changed hands this year. Yet you continue to prattle on how nullsec is completely risk free because the group you seem to have a grievance with continues to exist and prosper.

So to pin you down then baltec, you are saying you cannot do anything else but be ready right? Because my point is that while you are ready for that 23.5/7, you could still be engaged in other activities, just on "alert" status.


If you are insisting that you need 500 man hours per moon, that would lend to a serious force projection issue since those alliances holding multiple moons couldnt do jackshit else, let alone industry on any other scale, or mine, or trade, or anything else but be ready to defend.

Would make you wonder why so many alliances would even bother with moon mining since it would be so crippling yet only bring ice mining income....


I call shenanigans.

No, I'm claiming that if you don't take your 250-man fleet out for 2 hours to kill the invasion force, you get your tower RF'd (hey, less income). I'm also claiming that if your tower is already reinforced and you don't bring a 250-man fleet out for 2 hours, it will die to the attackers.

either case, you have just spent 500 man-hours defending the tower. Hopefully not 1,000 because you lost the first round and now have to come back after the timer ends.

Now, you are right that if the POS doesn't get attacked, you aren't spending 500 man-hours defending it.

In my own experiences, there are daily (or every other day) roams planned for each timezone by the corp. edit -- plus non-planned things, and "**** it, let's grab thrashers and go kill people", and coalition stuff...

This means a fleet of about 25 corpies roaming around for an hour (maybe 2). Across four time zones this is already 100-200 man-hours spent per day on "defense"; and over the course of a month, we've spent 3-6,000 man-hours defending 70-odd systems with patrols alone.

Now, we have longer ops (with more players) each weekend for killing off red POS (best defense is a good offence ). I never really pay attention to how long those fleets are out, but for the sake of round numbers, let's say it's 4-7,000 man hours of work (which means that every fri - sun, we're putting in 1,000 - 1750 man-hours ... or given 3 days/weekend, 333-583 man hours per day ... which is 100 pilots for 3.33 - 5.83 hours per day, and 100 pilots for these "big" ops seems extremely low turnout since my corp is fielding 100/day just roaming around).

Spending 10,000 man-hours per month, with 70 systems means that we're spending 142 and change man-hours per system, just on proactive defense of our stuff. This isn't taking into account any reactive "WE'RE GETTING SHOT AT! EVERYONE LOG IN NOW" pings that come up over the course of a month, which could bring a full fleet (250 persons) in for 1-4 hours (oh look, another 250-1,000 man hours).


@Liz -- no, if the tower's RF'd, everything needing CPU goes offline (moon harvesters, silos, reactors, hardeners, ewar, etc).