EVE General Discussion

Would make logistics a hell of a lot easier :)

The game is experiential. ie if you were to raise an army and go take space, you are unlikely to come into contention with the losers of the greatwar (ie you'd have to seek out the remnants) but you could easily come into conflict with the winners, even if you chose to not confront them directly. In both cases the form of that entity was shaped by the outcome of the great war.

ie the monument you seek exists in the game as the state of the game today.

I do however find your idea of creating bacon from supercap kills to be intriguing and many pigs might be quietly relieved at losing the bacon role.

exactly. even spending a lot of time in forums i hardly can say anything about BoB and all this "great player made stories". Looks like they are not so great to start with.


AFAIK big capital/supercapital battles happens quite often. Well it was this way before goons won Eve Online and killed 0.0
Asakai was big event but not something important enough to make a beacon. Yes, lots of ships dead and lots of people spend time there. Some 2nd-rate news agencies posted news about this. But it didn't make any changes to low-sec or 0.0 or high-sec.

There was lots of battles where people lost capitals. I remember some of them. For example when Gypsies killed 7 titans of Red Alliance. Or when PL killed 13 or 15 supercarriers of AAA in Delve 2012 campaign.

I guess if CCP starts to put beacons about every big event at some point every system will have 1-2 such beacons. So they will not do it.


yes, there are player created stories. And players create stories every day. And most of them doesn't worth any memory. And unless of real world there is almost none of player created stories which changes anything in Eve Online.

It's like goon from alliance panel said (i can mess with details here):
- i've burned Jita 2 times
- i've captured Delve 5 times
- i've captured North 2 times

BTW: can anybody tell the difference between 1st and 2nd Burn Jita? Or between 3rd and 4rd Delve invasions by goons? And which influence on whole Eve Online made this event?

So you're extrapolating some pretty huge conclusions based on a reference to a comment on a number that the commenter doesn't even understand. Riiiight…

The reason those players are categorised as “solo” is because they don't do whatever they do in groups. This has almost nothing to do with PvE, and almost everything to do with most activities simply not being done in groups. There are no group sell orders; no group industry (other than some high-end resource collection); very little group ISK-grinding (since, by design, it's almost all competitive and thus directly harmful to do as a group).

Fits the development of PvE fairly well, I'd say…

PvE in EVE has always had one purpose and one purpose alone: to inject ISK at one end and extract it at the other. The stories being weaved between those endpoints were up to the players to produce. The reason you see a lot of people engage in PvE is because they want ISK — a story would just be more bloated screens of text to click through to get to that ISK. The source of the above numbers is the same source that concluded that what we're seeing is simply a cycle of “get ISK → blow ISK on fun stuff → get more ISK”, and what you're proposing is to short-circuit that cycle into “get ISK → get ISK” (which would require the ISK to be removed as a factor, leaving only the underlying “fun” that people skip over as fast as possible).

Eh, not quite. PvE is part of the EVE economy because it functions as the two end-points of ISK — if we take it out, then it doesn't matter what we'll be doing since the ISK would run out. At the same time, if we removed PvE, it could trivially be replaced by some other faucet and sink mechanism that would still let most people stay away from mining and manufacturing.

The problem with your entire thesis is that it seems to assume that “solo” = PvE and that doing PvE = having an interest in any kind of story. Both are highly dubious assumptions. For many, an “improvement” of PvE would be to include even less story and just provide more efficient ISK cash-in. So the fundamental question of whether it's actually worth the dev time remains, or if it would just end up pleasing a minute subset of storyline buffs while annoying everyone else.

You don't have to give up your solo play. It can be relaxing to hop in a procurer and just mine while sorting out a bad day, and not talking to people. I don't like doing it for more than a day or two, but that's me.




Great! so go find a gang and get immersed in the game, and those people. Make your story and enjoy every minute of it to the fullest extent possible.

Everything you posted that you want to do is already there for you, waiting for you to do it, to be quite honest it could all fit under the heading of "epic arc". You're just the one writing the story.

For example, Angang's Epic Arc Missions.
1. "OK boys, [corporation] was blabbing about making a billion ISK in some wormhole last night [system ID]", the plan is to take it from them. We need these materials to make it happen ("courier mission - bring 15,000 m3 of ammo back")
2. We've got the materials we need, now we're gonna find their home (signatures)
3. As you're scanning, you run across a roaming gang of them (small gang fighting)
4. You've found their home, so now your corp needs to get in and set up a POS and stuff to siege them. (PI)
5. You start the siege (fleet fights)
6. you take over, and start building heavier defenses (more PI and guarding the miners and whatever else)
7. they come back, so you've got to defend your home (more fleet fighting)
8. kick them out, but your fleet gets separated by a wormhole collapse. Now you have to find your way home or to the fleet, so you can lead them out again (more signatures and exploring)
9. someone else thinks they can kick you out (more small gang fighting)

and so on. This whole time, you're not relying on some pre-generated storyline that you play through -- you're making it.



You're going a bit off the deep end again...

As it stands right now, there's simply no need for CCP to write up a huge storyline that you "need" to follow. If that's what you're looking for, there are already numerous games that supply that kind of experience.

Player logos and whatnot are coming with the V3 stuff (or at least it's been hinted at). Not sure what other "tools" you're looking for though...


Explain how the story (of events that happened in the game) is created outside of the game? If none of the events I listed took place, there would be no stories...

If you mean that you have to read a "book" outside of the client, how is that any different than the fluff books that game designers throw into their games? For example, "The History of the Kings of Neverwinter" (or other stuff) that you randomly find in NWN.

You forgot Babylon 5.

They did leave a mark, some of them a very big mark.

I still recall the old days of Player/Dev interaction events before the stupid leak/fiasco that made the whole epic storyline arch of the Amarrian Sect of Zealots derailed, be forgotten and scratched.

I mean, We , the Amarrians had a silly Emperor instead of Jamyl because of PLAYER INTERACTIONS within the game back in the day.

Eve was great and awesome in that aspect. But the whole thing died down ... Bah!

We need Sarpatis back in a titan being hunted by capsuleers ... We need more Depraved Karsoths and blood raider convoys escorting him out of Amarr space intow Low sec being tailed by angry capsuleers.

I miss that EVE ...

I can see the OP's point, but I don't think it would happen.

I'm a casual PvE player, and I carve out my own little story in my imagination (and sometimes do the story arcs, which are actually not bad, you'll enjoy them when you get to them). The game isn't really orientated around my playstyle, but I love the art design and intricacy of the game, and even though I don't PvP by preference, the ever-present sense of danger, and needing to take precautions constantly, makes the game highly immersive (until I do get blown up of course - that always puts me right back firmly in my Aeron, in my flat :) ).

As to the "emergent gameplay" counter-argument, I like the idea of player-created content in theory, but in practice, IMHO most of the EVE history stuff is just goofy uber-geek e-peening, it mostly has very little relation to the excellent s-f backstory CCP have set up. Obviously it's been fun for those participating, on the whole, and it's newsworthy, but it's not really much cop from an observer's point of view as story, it's not really drama, just schoolboy antics.

As to rp, there used to be a lot more roleplaying corps than there are now, they've just dwindled away because rp hasn't been supported by the devs, because that's not the side their bread's buttered on.

Actually, I think CCP painted themselves into a corner long, long ago. When they started, the intention was "multiplayer Elite", i.e. a game with PvE and PvP balanced. Unfortunately they didn't have enough resources to make the PvE side of the game as good as it might have been, and meanwhile a lot of PvP players were attracted to the game even with its then-sketchy PvE, and supported it through it's early development. (There used to be remnants of this potential PvE complexity - long, long ago, there were quite complex hauling and trading possibilities on the PvE side, the beginnings of something that could have been more like a multiplayer Elite - all those dangling loose ends have long been snipped.)

Sad, but on the other hand, that's the way it is. It may be impossible, at least for the near future, to have an MMO that has the kind of deep interweaving of PvE and PvP that the concept "multiplayer Elite" promised. I doubt Star Citizen will be able to do it. SC will probably have good PvE but be too "safe" and lack the immersion factor of EVE that comes from its danger.

There really is no solution. As a PvE solo player, you either take EVE as it is and learn to cope with its foibles and jackassery, and carve your own niche in it with your imagination, or you don't play it.

The game is beautiful, with a rich backstory, and in terms of art design and intricacy would make for fantastic PvE. But that train left the station long, long ago. It is the way it is and it won't change - there are too many players invested in the way it is, by now.