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Let the Speculation Begin--Destructible, Player Owned Customs Offices

Author
The Offerer
Doomheim
#21 - 2011-10-18 20:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: The Offerer
edit: nvm
Admiral Valeris
Nkulunkulu
#22 - 2011-10-18 20:45:50 UTC
wowza there goes cheap poses hehe, jita P4 prices have nearly doubled across the board! You guys dont waste any time! Shocked
Cassina Lemour
Staner Industries
#23 - 2011-10-18 20:50:56 UTC

Building customs office will increase demand for high tier PI goods, but that will be modest. There is significant over supply resulting in most selling for below production cost, I doubt it's enough to fix that.

The Bandwidth buff will make long links more practical and reduce the need to bunch structures up and the reduced need to upgrade should result in a modest increase in production capacity.

The biggest influence will be the increase in tariffs.
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#24 - 2011-10-18 20:52:48 UTC
Admiral Valeris wrote:
wowza there goes cheap poses hehe, jita P4 prices have nearly doubled across the board! You guys dont waste any time! Shocked


Those who hesitate are lost.

Of course, those late to the table may get burned when prices nose-dive as CCP announces a long delay in implementation of POCOs.
VaMei
Meafi Corp
#25 - 2011-10-18 21:01:31 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Admiral Valeris wrote:
wowza there goes cheap poses hehe, jita P4 prices have nearly doubled across the board! You guys dont waste any time! Shocked

Those who hesitate are lost.

Of course, those late to the table may get burned when prices nose-dive as CCP announces a long delay in implementation of POCOs.


Those still at work hours after the big announcments come out just cry over the opportunities lost.Cry

...and breathe a sigh of relief when the delay is announced.
Adunh Slavy
#26 - 2011-10-18 21:09:32 UTC
Scrapyard Bob wrote:
Admiral Valeris wrote:
wowza there goes cheap poses hehe, jita P4 prices have nearly doubled across the board! You guys dont waste any time! Shocked


Those who hesitate are lost.

Of course, those late to the table may get burned when prices nose-dive as CCP announces a long delay in implementation of POCOs.



There was already a rather steep increase in prices of PI products in the past couple of months, mostly P1s and isolated instances of P0s in some regions, there was a sharp correction out there in the future, it may still build pressure even with this change. How long it takes to get the new COs built, and if CCP does indeed poof destroy all the existing ones in one day, the race to the top will be higher and more steep and with increased volitility in the short term. If CCP reconsiders the poof destruction, then the market should find balance more smoothly, at a likely lower level and over a longer period.

I'd advise anyone speculating to be rather wary of that aspect of this change. Long term prices will be of course higher, but likely not much more than 20% or so.

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.  - William Pitt

Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#27 - 2011-10-18 21:55:14 UTC
20% sounds about right long-term, but I foresee at least a few months of 40-60% higher prices.

Lots of other games coming out this winter that may draw off those who earn their ISK from PI harvesting (i.e. the younger players, where 800k per planet per day in hi-sec from harvesting is still good income for the effort). So between that and the fluctuations caused by people holding monopolies over low-sec / null-sec PI planets it could get ugly as supply constricts.

(Just because people take time out to play other games doesn't always mean that their POS towers suddenly stop needing fuel.)
Breaker77
Reclamation Industries
#28 - 2011-10-18 22:01:25 UTC
Una Achura wrote:
RAW23 wrote:
I've never done PI so I'm not sure how relevant this is but at the end of the dev-blog it is briefly noted that PI bandwidth will be increased five-fold. Will this balance out the expected extra demand for PI goods or is this kind of increase less dramatic than it sounds?


Not very dramatic link costs arent that high. Might mean you get one or two more structures on your planets.


Actually on larger radius planets, mainly gas planets, links use a significant amount of PG/CPU.

With these changes it will be easier to produce more oxygen and even use a single gas planet to produce large amounts of coolant.



Mara Villoso
Long Jump.
#29 - 2011-10-18 22:21:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Villoso
I'm wondering how control of CO's will work out in the future. Anyone producing PI would have a 'big picture' reason to destroy any and all CO's they ran across. Less supply=higher prices. Anyone not capable of defending their CO is almost certain to lose it.

Throttling POS construction and fuel supply will become one more concern that sovereign entities will have to watch. This may be the first step in the "farms and fields" implementation iterations.

Its also interesting to note that control of COs on planets in general affects the future production of COs. It also requires FW and/or Incursion players. Either the sovereign entities get themselves involved in both or they cede a certain amount of control over POS supply to the market.

Its also interesting to note that a purely mobile, non-sov holding fighting force could devote itself to the destruction of CO's. A business conglomerate could potentially control CO and PI production for most of EVE, not by holding territory or building things, but by destroying them. Screwing up who knows how many people's day.

Will pirates destroy them in losec and plant their own?

What about those taxes?

It should be very interesting to see how this shakes out in the overall scheme of things.
Lost Hamster
Hamster Holding Corp
#30 - 2011-10-18 22:28:27 UTC
Personally I think it will cause a 2-300% increase in prices when this feature will go live.
At the current stage we can assume that the POCO will cost around 1-200m ISK.
Calculate with that most of the POCO will be destroyed once every 3 month. (Could be that this is to pessimistic)
I think an average player generates about 10-30k ISK /planet /day tax.
5 player is using the same planet, so that gives about 50-150k ISK income /day
So how large tax would you need to set up to get this investment profitable? Let's say within the first month. 100% ? Roll
Epiphaniess
Verboten Technologies
#31 - 2011-10-18 22:34:41 UTC
I prediction is most PI in low sec will be in various stages of being reinforced or destroyed since no one is going to risk hundreds of millions or more defend PI. And no one is going to spend hundreds or the billions necessary to defend PI Customs Offices.

Especially since they will be easy targets to find and attack with no defensive capabilities.

There is no reason for some bored Pirate, griefer any guy with a gun not to shoot them. They don't shoot back which is every griefers favorite target, they will cause some form of annoyance to the people that own them making it all the sweeter.

The goons will love this change.

They need some form of defensive capabilities like a cloaking ability or they will just going to be a shoot me pinata.

Even the ones in Null sec will be hard to keep people form taking down without any form of deterrent.

Looks like more PI will move to high sec. Cost go up the price of PI goes up and so on and so on.

I like the idea of player owned Customs offices and all this but it looks like CCP did not think this through enough.
Epiphaniess
Verboten Technologies
#32 - 2011-10-18 22:41:39 UTC
And to bad CCP did not make it so you could tax people differently depending on their status to you is. That would of made things more interesting.

Lenient preferential taxes for those that you like and oppressive detrimental taxes for those you don't like.

Would be nice to also set up carrier contracts for the products in the customs offices. I can see that being a potential way for some low level transporters to make a little isk.
Dawn Alduin
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#33 - 2011-10-19 00:00:35 UTC
more t4 movement today in Domain per item, than the last 25 days combined.

Robotics jita/amarr etc, rocket up to 100kpu (And still selling)

Woo thanks CCP! $$$$$$


I understand the speculation, but do people think that in the next 3 months, planets are going to magically stop producing?

Callduron
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#34 - 2011-10-19 03:03:39 UTC
Dawn Alduin wrote:
more t4 movement today in Domain per item, than the last 25 days combined.

Robotics jita/amarr etc, rocket up to 100kpu (And still selling)

Woo thanks CCP! $$$$$$


I understand the speculation, but do people think that in the next 3 months, planets are going to magically stop producing?



Essentially yes.

Figures from CCP show that half of the PI taxes are paid in hi sec. The vast majority of people who farm in dangerous space only farm to P2 then refine in high sec so there's an awful lot of extraction happening out in low, null and w sec.

Consider

P1s, P2s mainly made in dangerous space
P3s p4s almost entirely made in hi sec unless consumed locally.

what happens if you remove dangerous space production?

I write http://stabbedup.blogspot.co.uk/

I post on reddit as /u/callduron.

DJ Blackman
Often AFK
#35 - 2011-10-19 06:54:08 UTC  |  Edited by: DJ Blackman
so.....let me get this right: If you anchor a CO with your corp that is just you and your alts, the taxes from importing/exporting to and from CO will go into your corp wallet only and not into a CCP ISK sink like before?

In otherwords, should a single corp own a CO, that individual will pay no taxes because taxes going out from his wallet will simply end up in his corp wallet?? That's gonna break something...
Myz Toyou
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2011-10-19 08:19:35 UTC
Thanks to CCP, got a nice bump in my wallet when I sold my stock in Organic Mortar shizzle for 1.3mil/unit compared to the 550k that they were before Bear
DeliaPrescot
Balintol
#37 - 2011-10-19 08:43:02 UTC  |  Edited by: DeliaPrescot
As for lowsec, Pirates are a lazy bunch of guys. They won't shoot a structure just for fun if it takes longer than 10min. The HP on the CO is big enough to withstand a 10 BS Fleet for about 10min. What we will see are local concentrations of CO where lowsec entities reside within 2 or 3 jumps of their home system mainly as a fight generator. Building CO in that systems for ISK might be a bad idea but i doubt that CO in backyard systems will be touched very often just when the randomly bored and occasion syndrome occurs because you won't get a fight out of the carebear corps.

Much depends on how organized the FW corps/allies are, as they can build the CO rather cheap. Maybe that's the first step of boosting/fixing FW....
Via Shivon
#38 - 2011-10-19 08:54:35 UTC
DeliaPrescot wrote:
As for lowsec, Pirates are a lazy bunch of guys. They won't shoot a structure just for fun if it takes longer than 10min. The HP on the CO is big enough to withstand a 10 BS Fleet for about 10min. What we will see are local concentrations of CO where lowsec entities reside within 2 or 3 jumps of their home system mainly as a fight generator. Building CO in that systems for ISK might be a bad idea but i doubt that CO in backyard systems will be touched very often just when the randomly bored and occasion syndrome occurs because you won't get a fight out of the carebear corps.

Much depends on how organized the FW corps/allies are, as they can build the CO rather cheap. Maybe that's the first step of boosting/fixing FW....



5000dps you need ~30 min so i dont think 10 bs will be enough
DeliaPrescot
Balintol
#39 - 2011-10-19 09:15:04 UTC
I count lowsec BS with 1k or at least 800 DPS at close range not that measly 500 DPS you guys in 0.0 fly. ;)

CO HP
Shield: 10,000,000
Armor: 2,500,000
Structure: 2,000,000

That's 14.5m HP overall, 10 BS with 1k DPS about 15min. So lets say a 10 man mixed BS/BC gang can RF a CO in about 20min, to long for most short attention spaned Pirates.
Florestan Bronstein
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2011-10-19 09:55:35 UTC
Tau Cabalander wrote:
I'm surprised there isn't more discussion along these lines:

The day this goes live on TQ, all customs offices in lowsec, nulsec, and w-space vanish. Any PI production requiring importing will be affected until the new customs offices are built and deployed.

Customs offices will require CONCORD or FW LP for a limited run BPC. These people will be tasked with grinding LP for all the customs offices. Will there be enough LP to supply demand? I suspect not, unless the BPC are exceptionally cheap.

Then there is the fallout of interrupting PI production in lowsec, nulsec, and w-space until an average of say 6 customs offices are deployed per system.

they could just seed the new Custom Offices 1-2 weeks before the old ones are retired (and the new ones are allowed to be anchored)
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