Science & Industry

I totally agree with the OP. CCP has made many attempts to populate low/null. All the people who want to be there are already there.

I also see the problem that the upcomming changes do not leave room for small high sec corporations to run a POS. Limiting the ICE supply is ok, but I think they overdid it. I just checked: Khanid Kingdom will not have asingle ICE anomaly in the whole region (!).

This is not limiting the ICE supply, this is completely removing the ICE supply. Why? Does CCP really want to ban POSes from high-sec in Khanid?

incorrect.
i want to be in null, however i make more isk in high sec so i am there.

there's no incentive for me to go in to null, currently.

OK, so tons of ice available in low sec. Will it make me go to low? No. Why? Too much trouble. EVE is supposed to be a game. Nowe everytime I need ice for the POS it becomes a damn project to get it. I do not want to waste 3 hours in a row to grab ICE. So it is as the OP says, some people will adapt in high-sec. I am one of them.



And do you have the feeling that this is about to change?

yes. you will make more isk mining in null than you will in high sec after odyssey.

And with the outpost changes you even have some chance of doing something useful with the minerals. Nowhere near far enough yet but in the right direction.

Well, it looks like we will have to wait and see how it really works out in the end. Maybe, it is still bearable to do the long range trip to get the ice.

Regarding the Outpost modifications, I cannot really say whats going on here because I have never dealt with outposts. But I trust you guys know what you are talking about.

Basically you need 1 of each outpost in your constellation, or if you own the region 1 reprocessing one centrally located with jb.

Genreally though you get better refining compressing it and shipping it to high sec. One of the reason most alliance never see mineral taxes.

If your not willing to move 3-4 freighters worth of upgrades per station your better off not bothering with keeping the minerals/ ice in null

Each type of station has a role and gives you basic access to certain functions. Amarr is manufacturing, Caldari research, Minmatar refining, Gallente offices. Here's a basic rundown: http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/outpost_construction.php

So basically, because you can't set up two stations in the same system, you have to figure out what type to put and where. The Minmatar station gives you 35% refining efficiency and only after installing billion isk upgrades can you get them to 40 and 50%. Not to mention the corp that owns it usually puts on a tax (wouldn't you?) that you can't get around. So basically for refining, you need to get scrapmetal processing and refining up to 4, have a 40% refine station and use a refining implant to get "perfect" refine. Then you lose up to 10% to the owner corp.

So now I have my minerals, where do I build my stuff? Hrm, no pos with manufacturing and this refinery station's 2 slots have a 12 day que...I go to the nearest Amarr station. That's a few jumps away. Do I have access to the production lines (there are only 20!). Yes, 1 line open. I can make my Maelstrom to sell....now am I in a trade hub for the area? Ooops, nope! Need to ship that thing to the staging station to sell. Freighter in nullsec? Um...what about a jump bridge? Well that's a lot of ozone. Well, let me use my carrier to jump my ship there to sell. Not a lot of isotopes but I can handle it. Ok, put it on market and done.

Well crap, we are low on ice materials. And since we are 3 cynos from highsec, I guess it's time to rally up the corp to go ice mine for a few 6 hours so we can run our jump bridges, pos's, and cynos for the next month. Where's that ice system? Crap, how many jumps? Guys, I can only fit so many hulks in my rorq...can someone else jump their ships? Do we have someone who can boost or pick up cans? I can't do both. Who's our security? Gah, that's far from the refinery station...guess I need to bring some heavy water with me so I can compress....woah, those are some long compression times...

Whew, ok, ice mining done. Well now that I've done that maybe I should try to make some T2 modules that everyone uses. Wait, I have to import all the data cores from high sec as well as most of the T2 moon parts because our alliance doesn't control the right space for the base moon mats I need? Oh wait, I have to do how many reactions to get moon materials for a single item of T2? WTF?

Ah well, lets do some capital production.....I need how much Tritanium?!?!

I could go on but I have little sympathy for people complaining about fixes to null and "nerfing highsec". Especially when the changes are so small overall. Null needs a lot more love on the Science and Industry front.

Ive argued before that to improve Null, you need to improve Null, not nerf Hi. And this is what CCP has done. There is no Hi Sec nerf, no one is being forced anywhere. All they did is loosen the Null bottleneck for those already in Null. The vast majority of minerals will still come from Hi.

Industrialists (miners in particualr) and PvPer's dont mix. It's the Hippo giving the Scorpion a ride...sooner or later the Scorpion will sting the Hippo, just as PvPer's will eventually get bored and shoot the miners their supposed to protect, and everyone knows this.

Sov holders don't have the forsight, o likely even the tools, to see themselves as a nation, providing a safe haven for indutrialists to gather to ply their trade to advance the "nation". To them, everyone is a target. Until they either see past that, or Eve gives them the tools to implement it, Hi seccers will stay in Hi, and the large majority of minerals will still flow from Hi to Null, only those already giving it a go in Null will benefit from thsi change, with very few getting hurt. If youre getting hurt from this change, you werent on very sound ground to begin with.

Im a newer player and Im not too familiar with Gravs and Anoms.

But I read about them and I trained to scan them down and mine.

Now they will always have folks in them because they no longer need to be scanned down.

That sucks. I had to waste time training skills to do this. Had I known about this, I never would have trained those skills.