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Warfare & Tactics

 
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DO SOMETHING CCP, STOP BEING A SCARED B*TCH

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Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#281 - 2013-05-02 14:24:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Crosi Wesdo
Cearain wrote:
Maximus Hashur wrote:
After reading everything, im thinking - who cares at this point?

If FW stays exactly the way it is right now - who cares? Its a means to find PvP and have a constant enemy to war with.

Enaluri goes to Caldari, then gets taken back by Gallente. Immuri gets taken by Min then goes back to Amarr.

It truly doesnt matter if you step back and put FW in perspective.

Its a good place to find regular fights and have fun. Let the farmers farm. Someone warps out on you, go to the next plex or system and find someone else to engage. Trust me there are plenty of people to fight.

And if you really cant stomach how the FW game is, move on to something else.



The random rvb style pvp is really great in faction war. I do agree. The increase in great plex fights is very welcome.

But this random rvb style pvp with no back story and no overarching goals can get stale.

The reason I care is because fw is so close. The developers even planned on doing the things that would make fw great (intel tools and rollbacks) but they stopped just a few inches from the finish line, and left it a system where pve decides sov in 90% of systems.

Having a system where people are actually "fighting" for sov throughout the warzone, instead of carebearing for sov, would be so much better.

I don't entirely blame ccp. It seems our own csm rep put more emphasis on how and when lp was paid out than making sov warfare a pvp mechanic. And to a large extent he was listening to the new carebear minded players who instantly became attracted to the new lp fountain - called fw.

But whatever. The bottom line is this:

Is Sov in over 90% of systems supposed to be determined by carebears?

If it is then yes fw is working as intended.

If not then hopefully ccp will do the things that they initially intended to do and left off of retribution. Namely better intel tools about plexes being taken and timer rollbacks.



Sov is part the environment in FW so by definition sov is a pvE game and necessarily so. people know where farmers are but dont go there because there is no fight to be had. For the last time, notifications will never change that. Finding farmers is not the problem with farming. The notifications at best will provide is a tool for farmers to effiiently steal LP from each other (and pvp'ers)
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#282 - 2013-05-02 14:25:01 UTC
Cearain wrote:

But this rvb style pvp with no back story and no overarching goals can get stale. With no connection to sov its just too random. And even now you can hit dry spells where you spend an hour warping around with little action.
Only you can set overarching goals in Eve. It's a sandbox, afterall.

And don't give me this "other parts of eve have overarching goals" BS. If you don't think FW has an overarching goal, then you must think there is no overarching goal in Eve.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#283 - 2013-05-02 14:37:00 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:

But this rvb style pvp with no back story and no overarching goals can get stale. With no connection to sov its just too random. And even now you can hit dry spells where you spend an hour warping around with little action.
Only you can set overarching goals in Eve. It's a sandbox, afterall.

And don't give me this "other parts of eve have overarching goals" BS. If you don't think FW has an overarching goal, then you must think there is no overarching goal in Eve.


The overarching goal in faction war is to win sov for your militia. You implicitly agreed to this when you said you won faction war when gallente took all the systems.

Maximus Hashur basically said who cares if all the systems are taken by rabbits, we still get a bunch of pvp. So my post was a response to that. I pointed out that when you remove the pvp from the actual overarching goal of winning sov you just get random rvb style pvp. A sand box does not mean there can be no bigger picture goals to achieve in the game.

Of course anyone can make believe their own goals, but some goals are actually built into the game - like sov and tiers etc.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#284 - 2013-05-02 14:40:25 UTC
Crosi Wesdo wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Maximus Hashur wrote:
After reading everything, im thinking - who cares at this point?

If FW stays exactly the way it is right now - who cares? Its a means to find PvP and have a constant enemy to war with.

Enaluri goes to Caldari, then gets taken back by Gallente. Immuri gets taken by Min then goes back to Amarr.

It truly doesnt matter if you step back and put FW in perspective.

Its a good place to find regular fights and have fun. Let the farmers farm. Someone warps out on you, go to the next plex or system and find someone else to engage. Trust me there are plenty of people to fight.

And if you really cant stomach how the FW game is, move on to something else.



The random rvb style pvp is really great in faction war. I do agree. The increase in great plex fights is very welcome.

But this random rvb style pvp with no back story and no overarching goals can get stale.

The reason I care is because fw is so close. The developers even planned on doing the things that would make fw great (intel tools and rollbacks) but they stopped just a few inches from the finish line, and left it a system where pve decides sov in 90% of systems.

Having a system where people are actually "fighting" for sov throughout the warzone, instead of carebearing for sov, would be so much better.

I don't entirely blame ccp. It seems our own csm rep put more emphasis on how and when lp was paid out than making sov warfare a pvp mechanic. And to a large extent he was listening to the new carebear minded players who instantly became attracted to the new lp fountain - called fw.

But whatever. The bottom line is this:

Is Sov in over 90% of systems supposed to be determined by carebears?

If it is then yes fw is working as intended.

If not then hopefully ccp will do the things that they initially intended to do and left off of retribution. Namely better intel tools about plexes being taken and timer rollbacks.



Sov is part the environment in FW so by definition sov is a pvE game and necessarily so. people know where farmers are but dont go there because there is no fight to be had. For the last time, notifications will never change that. Finding farmers is not the problem with farming. The notifications at best will provide is a tool for farmers to effiiently steal LP from each other (and pvp'ers)


Ah this argument again. No the notifications would help people remove those who whore others lp. Because if someone is a confirmed thief the main alliances could list them as people everyone should whore lp from, and the notifications would help them whore the lp from them.

Bottom line is better intel tools means more of the war is in the players control.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#285 - 2013-05-02 14:40:33 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Cearain wrote:

But this rvb style pvp with no back story and no overarching goals can get stale.

The overarching goal in faction war is to win sov for your militia.

So you are saying FW has overarching goals, but in the previous post you said it didn't? Please clarify.

I'll rephrase to make my point clear. Only YOU can decide what your overarching goal is in Eve, the game can't do it for you.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#286 - 2013-05-02 15:04:02 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Cearain wrote:

But this rvb style pvp with no back story and no overarching goals can get stale.

The overarching goal in faction war is to win sov for your militia.

So you are saying FW has overarching goals, but in the previous post you said it didn't? Please clarify.




That is the goal but I was responding to Maximus who was saying "who cares" about it. In essence he was saying pretend it doesn't exist and just enjoy the random pvp we are getting.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Sedition.
#287 - 2013-05-02 15:06:03 UTC  |  Edited by: ALUCARD 1208
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Cearain wrote:

But this rvb style pvp with no back story and no overarching goals can get stale.

The overarching goal in faction war is to win sov for your militia.

So you are saying FW has overarching goals, but in the previous post you said it didn't? Please clarify.



In essence he was saying pretend it doesn't exist and just enjoy the random pvp we are getting.



Which should be easy for you your not in fw so it not a problem that really exist for you. unless im missing something here?

And i agree just enjoy the pvp like everyone else because all said and done a better sov mechanic would be nice if it forced fights but enjoy the ones you are getting in abundance atm

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#288 - 2013-05-02 15:14:51 UTC
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Cearain wrote:

But this rvb style pvp with no back story and no overarching goals can get stale.

The overarching goal in faction war is to win sov for your militia.

So you are saying FW has overarching goals, but in the previous post you said it didn't? Please clarify.



In essence he was saying pretend it doesn't exist and just enjoy the random pvp we are getting.



Which should be easy for you your not in fw so it not a problem that really exist for you. unless im missing something here?

And i agree just enjoy the pvp like everyone else because all said and done a better sov mechanic would be nice if it forced fights but enjoy the ones you are getting in abundance atm


I agree that the sov mechanic is currently so broken it might as well be ignored. But when you ignore it and just go for random pvp in plexes then you realize you will get allot more fights if you are not blue to a substantial number of pvpers you see in plexes.

So why be in fw at all if you are going to ignore sov and your not interested in carebearing lp?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
ALUCARD 1208
Digital Ghosts
Sedition.
#289 - 2013-05-02 15:20:02 UTC  |  Edited by: ALUCARD 1208
I like the wartargets we fight and i do have alot of friends in gal/minnie militia what iv made over the years i can find enough fights without having to kill/lose **** to these guys and if wartargets arnt up for a fight theres always local pirates to which theres plenty in our space. I like the social aspect of the Faction warfare something i dont think you like as you emphasise on your kills being solo.

BEBOPS ODE TO PERUNGA
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#290 - 2013-05-02 15:35:30 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Cearain wrote:
But this rvb style pvp with no back story and no overarching goals can get stale.
The overarching goal in faction war is to win sov for your militia.
So you are saying FW has overarching goals, but in the previous post you said it didn't? Please clarify.
That is the goal but I was responding to Maximus who was saying "who cares" about it. In essence he was saying pretend it doesn't exist and just enjoy the random pvp we are getting.
His choice. Yours too.
Crosi Wesdo
War and Order
#291 - 2013-05-02 16:01:41 UTC
Cearain wrote:


Ah this argument again. No the notifications would help people remove those who ***** others lp. Because if someone is a confirmed thief the main alliances could list them as people everyone should ***** lp from, and the notifications would help them ***** the lp from them.

Bottom line is better intel tools means more of the war is in the players control.


Only farmers care about stealing LP. No one else is going to go out of their way to do it.
Muad 'dib
State War Academy
Caldari State
#292 - 2013-05-02 16:07:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Muad 'dib
Lets just pretend there are no pvpers on the farming side for a mo.

Even if the losing side pvpers could kill all the farmers they are losing FW to, who is going to counter-farm for a fraction of the money they could get, compared to just jumping on the bandwagon?

*nah leave the counter-farm to the pvpers too? yeah sweet plan*

dont forget losing sides are outnumbered in both famers and pvpers in reality.

The longer a side stays winning the worse it gets in every way to ever come back from it.

Cosmic signature detected. . . . http://i.imgur.com/Z7NfIS6.jpg I got 99 likes, and this post aint one.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#293 - 2013-05-02 16:13:25 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
Cearain wrote:
But this rvb style pvp with no back story and no overarching goals can get stale.
The overarching goal in faction war is to win sov for your militia.
So you are saying FW has overarching goals, but in the previous post you said it didn't? Please clarify.
That is the goal but I was responding to Maximus who was saying "who cares" about it. In essence he was saying pretend it doesn't exist and just enjoy the random pvp we are getting.
His choice. Yours too.


Its a pretty easy to choice to make when the overarching goal of gaining sov is a broken carebear race.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#294 - 2013-05-02 16:19:36 UTC
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
Cearain wrote:
ALUCARD 1208 wrote:

On that fanfest link i posted for you they mentioned it was a mess before the changes and now its at something there happy with.



Oh you mean the link that proved you lied about what CCP said?



huh did u even watch it at all?


Your whiney posts even went from CCP wants to do this to they planned to but didnt :( sad panda


At 24:50 he said they simply had time constraints so didn't add it. I gave you a link were ccp said they wanted a notification systems or at least better intel tools. Its earlier in this thread as well.

ALUCARD 1208 wrote:
cearain wrote:

Thats just it. CCP has already said they would like to do notifications


No they didnt as i said watch retribution round up of this years fanfest the dev says they had a notification system ready but yanked it cos its not in the essence of the sandbox..


Please give the point in the talk where the dev said this.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#295 - 2013-05-02 16:32:37 UTC
Cearain wrote:
Its a pretty easy to choice to make when the overarching goal of gaining sov is a broken carebear race.

Would you like to rephrase that sentence?
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#296 - 2013-05-02 16:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Cearain
X Gallentius wrote:
Cearain wrote:
It's a pretty easy choice to make when the overarching goal of gaining sov is a broken carebear race.

Would you like to rephrase that sentence?


Yes but you already quoted it so its too late. Oops

I would rephrase it like above. Still not good, but better.

Did you see the video at the link Alucard posted? Did the dev say what Alucard claimed? If so where?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
Cosmo Raata
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#297 - 2013-05-02 17:11:20 UTC
Why are the few people who are arguing against reform either not in FW or basically solo players who are farmers of LP in the first place.

Also, those who want the status quo keep asking for proof or specific quotes or real data to prove our argument right, yet they provide none and when we find some they ignore it or pick it apart.

I think its time to ignore the trolls and just keep posting ideas at this point. Never argue with a fool - they will drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#298 - 2013-05-02 17:22:31 UTC
I guess the question is "What ideas?" CCP has a good list to work with already.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#299 - 2013-05-02 17:30:54 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
I guess the question is "What ideas?" CCP has a good list to work with already.


"the dev says they had a notification system ready but yanked it cos its not in the essence of the sandbox.."

Did you look at the link Alucard provided? Did the dev say this? If so where?

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#300 - 2013-05-02 18:22:03 UTC
Cearain wrote:
X Gallentius wrote:
I guess the question is "What ideas?" CCP has a good list to work with already.

"the dev says they had a notification system ready but yanked it cos its not in the essence of the sandbox.."
Did you look at the link Alucard provided? Did the dev say this? If so where?

Gonna assume this post was a repeat.