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New Dev Blog: Player-owned Customs Office

First post First post
Author
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1601 - 2011-11-01 17:50:10 UTC
War Kitten wrote:


Yes, CCP is moving your cheese. Get over the angst Mr. Angst.




I c wat U did thar!! P

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#1602 - 2011-11-01 18:26:34 UTC
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:



There is no potential about it, they are breaking an established paradigm.

With that said, what is at issue is the paradigm they are shifting to... a paradigm shift that needs to be critiqued by the community to ensure its the 'right' paradigm shift.

So when I say they will not code for power users, you've misunderstood my meaning:

They will not modify their paradigm shift to cater to power users, as the current paradigm is being broken in favor of a new PCO-centric paradigm.

So arguing about maintaining a paradigm that will not be maintained, is a waste of time.

What will be productive, will be approaching CCP with reasonable arguments that attempt to alter their theoretical paradigm vision to a realistic and practical one that actually fits real game play dynamics.


But that's just it... they can do both. They can maintain things for those established in the system while introducing PCOs in a way that the system and economy can absorb with relatively little pain. By simply leaving the customs offices in place, even for a period of three to six months outside of low, permanently in low, you allow everyone plenty of time to adapt while the PCO model establishes. If I have reasonable time to gather the BPCs and build the PCOs needed in my hole (will be up to 10) then for me nothing breaks at all. It becomes nothing more than an annoying added expense, but that can be absorbed. It's the cold turkey you're-PI-is-dead-right-now approach that concerns me personally, and with regards to high sec into low sec PI the fact that without customs offices to fight for the high sec folks are pretty much screwed and completely at the mercy of other people for their PI when that's never been the case before.

I don't hate or even dislike the PCO concept. I don't trust it as of yet, this is true... giving other people control over someone else's PI seems inherently bad... but if implemented intelligently and not forced down our throats generating an immediate gag reflex I think it can wind up working well.

Right now... a lot of people are gagging.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#1603 - 2011-11-01 18:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Jack Dant
Jack Dant wrote:
But I notice there's CONCORD COs all over lowsec, not sure if they are destroyable. Just injected the skills for a dread on sisi, will let you know tomorrow Big smile

The lowsec concord COs on Sisi are destroyable, just confirmed it.

The HP is misleading, because it bleeds too much into armor and hull. It died while still at 90% shields or so. I expect this will be different for player COs.

It does not go into reinforced (being NPC-owned, it was expected). And you do get a killmail from it (it must be the only NPC structure that does).

You get a -1.5% sec hit just from shooting it, -6% from destruction. If this is the sec status penalty for shooting player COs, it's much too high.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation
The Honda Accord
#1604 - 2011-11-01 21:25:07 UTC
So it seems despite all the feedback to CCP that the concept was broken for low sec we see on SiSi it implemented as blogged?

They really don't get it.

Issler
Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#1605 - 2011-11-01 21:37:18 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
So it seems despite all the feedback to CCP that the concept was broken for low sec we see on SiSi it implemented as blogged?


They probably had to roll out what they had, a one week lead time is not all that long in terms of development time - especially if they are going significantly back to the drawing board with the concept (as they need to).
Cailais
The Red Pill Taker Group
Exxitium
#1606 - 2011-11-01 22:38:27 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
So it seems despite all the feedback to CCP that the concept was broken for low sec we see on SiSi it implemented as blogged?

They really don't get it.

Issler


Except youre assuming that the 'concept for low sec' is broken: when it plaintively isnt. Destructable Low Sec POCOs are the desperately needed future. Accept that the 'free and easy' ISK font is going and adapt accordingly.

C.

Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#1607 - 2011-11-01 22:47:25 UTC
Cailais wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
So it seems despite all the feedback to CCP that the concept was broken for low sec we see on SiSi it implemented as blogged?

They really don't get it.

Issler


Except youre assuming that the 'concept for low sec' is broken: when it plaintively isnt. Destructable Low Sec POCOs are the desperately needed future. Accept that the 'free and easy' ISK font is going and adapt accordingly.

C.



pi goods used to be an isk sink. i would love them to go back to exactly that, but at this stage pi is perfect to ccp.

the isk font is still there and infact it grew more with corps getting the tax income insted of it being removed from the game.

OMG when can i get a pic here

Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1608 - 2011-11-01 23:23:25 UTC
Issler Dainze wrote:
So it seems despite all the feedback to CCP that the concept was broken for low sec we see on SiSi it implemented as blogged?

They really don't get it.

Issler


If CO's in low sec are destructible on SiSi, then I see that as an indication they are making changes based on our feedback.

We asked NPC-CO's be left but made destructible in Low Sec and that's what's being reported...

It may be a bit of a stretch to say they don't get it... not if their re-iterating.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Zeronic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1609 - 2011-11-02 00:34:44 UTC
I keep see this issues being talk about and the current path being a negative one. So CCP Dev's what if the people say Cancel this POCO and work on polishing the game over new content. Is that so much to ask??
Certis
Boa Innovations
Brothers of Tangra
#1610 - 2011-11-02 00:57:44 UTC
Sorry don't have time to read through all these pages, so maybe this has been said.

If I got this right you are saying that an individual and/or member of an npc corp can't build a customs office in low sec. In which case CCP just gonna shoot themselves in the foot yet again. Way to go if you want to loose even more old players who are in an npc corp and are happy that way. Not to mention many more new players who may also prefer not to join a non npc corp.

Low sec has been underutilised for years now and just when you introduce something that gives more players the incentive to explore and use low sec, you go and nerf it.

Introduce new stuff by all means, but don't keep moving the goal posts and nerfing stuff that many players have spent a great deal of time setting up for themselves.

Jeez when are you guys gonna wake up.
Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#1611 - 2011-11-02 01:44:22 UTC
Cailais wrote:
Issler Dainze wrote:
So it seems despite all the feedback to CCP that the concept was broken for low sec we see on SiSi it implemented as blogged?

They really don't get it.

Issler


Except youre assuming that the 'concept for low sec' is broken: when it plaintively isnt. Destructable Low Sec POCOs are the desperately needed future. Accept that the 'free and easy' ISK font is going and adapt accordingly.

C.



Ah, C, you're missing the main point though. If the COs in low are destroyed and someone puts a PCO up, what recourse do the high sec folks have in NPC corps if they wind up denied access to those planets they're already established on?

None. Go somewhere else.

However, if you leave the COs intact but only offline them in the presence of a PCO, then the high sec people are given the option to band together, remove the PCO and start using the customs office again. Maybe a different corp will come along and set one up at fair rates the high folks accept... then they're making isk. You have to see that buy leaving the COs intact, though, that there's greater options for conflict simply because the high sec folks will have something they can actually fight for if provoked. The current method removes all incentive to fight for them.

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

rootimus maximus
Perkone
Caldari State
#1612 - 2011-11-02 06:12:22 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Ah, C, you're missing the main point though. If the COs in low are destroyed and someone puts a PCO up, what recourse do the high sec folks have in NPC corps if they wind up denied access to those planets they're already established on?


They could experience Eve in all its glory by joining or forming a player corp. NPC corps have their place, but they can also be a hinderance. This is an excellent case in point.
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1613 - 2011-11-02 07:18:43 UTC
Zeronic wrote:
I keep see this issues being talk about and the current path being a negative one. So CCP Dev's what if the people say Cancel this POCO and work on polishing the game over new content. Is that so much to ask??



Ah what the hell let's just cancel DUST 514 too? Roll

It's not the feature, its the lack of refinement in the current proposed iteration - lets see what the next Team Pi DevBlog says...

*CCP Omen - But whatever you do, Don't do what CCP Tallest did by leaving info out of his blog that he had to go back and edit P

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

MasterDk78
Brotherhood of Blood and Steel
#1614 - 2011-11-02 08:21:41 UTC  |  Edited by: MasterDk78
Since they are totally defenceless, i would suggest putting in some kind of defence.

Etc, it would be pretty annoying while your sleeping that some noob spend some few hours alone sitting with his drones to get the office down to reinforce mode.

A way to add some defence to it can be done in some ways.

1. being able to upgrade the office with an attachment of dronebay. (150 m3) with 125 bandwith
The dronebay attachment has 4 med slots, etc with the purpose of putting an sensor booster on it, some drone mod bonus'ses.
As standard the dronebay attachment would have an range of 50km (hench why u can attach a sensor booster.
Depending on the size of the attacking ship, the dronebay attachment would then send out drones accordingly to the mass of
The attacker. Etc. light drones (if in stock) against a frig. Heavy drones vs bc & bs or aboth.

2. The office could be upgradeble with small to medium guns, those guns cant be killed, but if the office went into reinforce mode,
The guns would be shut down, untill repaired.

now a q.

In lowsec, its a criminal act to attack an another player where u would loose standing, would it count in the same way when attacking an office (unless u at war)
Kassasis Dakkstromri
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1615 - 2011-11-02 09:32:08 UTC
MasterDk78 wrote:
Since they are totally defenceless, i would suggest putting in some kind of defence.

Etc, it would be pretty annoying while your sleeping that some noob spend some few hours alone sitting with his drones to get the office down to reinforce mode.

A way to add some defence to it can be done in some ways.

1. being able to upgrade the office with an attachment of dronebay. (150 m3) with 125 bandwith
The dronebay attachment has 4 med slots, etc with the purpose of putting an sensor booster on it, some drone mod bonus'ses.
As standard the dronebay attachment would have an range of 50km (hench why u can attach a sensor booster.
Depending on the size of the attacking ship, the dronebay attachment would then send out drones accordingly to the mass of
The attacker. Etc. light drones (if in stock) against a frig. Heavy drones vs bc & bs or aboth.

2. The office could be upgradeble with small to medium guns, those guns cant be killed, but if the office went into reinforce mode,
The guns would be shut down, untill repaired.

now a q.

In lowsec, its a criminal act to attack an another player where u would loose standing, would it count in the same way when attacking an office (unless u at war)



Yes - this was already answered by CCP Nullarbor - Shooting PCO's in low sec will give you GCC as per the normal mechanic.

All aggression mechanics stay the same.

CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf

Jack Dant
The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre
#1616 - 2011-11-02 10:42:48 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:

Ah, C, you're missing the main point though. If the COs in low are destroyed and someone puts a PCO up, what recourse do the high sec folks have in NPC corps if they wind up denied access to those planets they're already established on?

None. Go somewhere else.


A bunch of NPC corp people can cooperate to take down a POCO, but not enough to setup an alt corp that anchors a new one?

In any case, I think forcing people to keep their lowsec POCOs open to all makes lots of sense. It fits lowsec gameplay better, in the same way a lowsec corp can "claim" a station, but can't stop others from using it except by permacamping the undock. And it makes more sense for the lore.

What happens in lowsec, stays in lowsec, lowering the barrier to entry to lowsec PVP: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=476644&#post476644

Ingvar Angst
Nasty Pope Holding Corp
#1617 - 2011-11-02 10:50:32 UTC
rootimus maximus wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Ah, C, you're missing the main point though. If the COs in low are destroyed and someone puts a PCO up, what recourse do the high sec folks have in NPC corps if they wind up denied access to those planets they're already established on?


They could experience Eve in all its glory by joining or forming a player corp. NPC corps have their place, but they can also be a hinderance. This is an excellent case in point.


So they should be forced to give up a part of the game they like in order to play the way you think they should?

Six months in the hole... it changes a man.

War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#1618 - 2011-11-02 11:30:39 UTC
Ingvar Angst wrote:
rootimus maximus wrote:
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Ah, C, you're missing the main point though. If the COs in low are destroyed and someone puts a PCO up, what recourse do the high sec folks have in NPC corps if they wind up denied access to those planets they're already established on?


They could experience Eve in all its glory by joining or forming a player corp. NPC corps have their place, but they can also be a hinderance. This is an excellent case in point.


So they should be forced to give up a part of the game they like in order to play the way you think they should?


What is there to like about being in an NPC corp?

The taxes you pay "to the man" for no benefit?

The camaraderie of hundreds of newbies in corp chat asking the same silly questions over and over?

Perhaps it's the false sense of community one gets when they see green star icons in hi-sec all the time?

Or is it just the sad fear of being wardec'd in a real corporation that keeps them in the shallow end of the pool?



I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.

Anna Orkiste
DELTA FORCE RANGERS
#1619 - 2011-11-02 13:38:27 UTC
So PVPers preper pay more for your ships. POS fuel again geting higher in price on this, So ractions to wil go up in price, and thatmeans ships modules evriting will rise in price.


I dont like this, more usles job for industrialists again :( no fun :(

Afcors grifers happy yeah someting to kill but they not tink forder than this ;)

Dirk Smacker
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1620 - 2011-11-02 13:56:25 UTC
The steep standing hit may prevent large nul sec alliances from marauding through low sec, blowing up all the customs offices, and becoming absentee landlords.

That could be a good thing.

I guess once you have a signature, you cannot have a blank one.