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RIP hisec mining, it was fun while it lasted.

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Dave Stark
#241 - 2013-04-28 20:21:15 UTC
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Mynna is telling me that hi-sec ice mining is going to be upwards of 40M/hr

"Oh god the horrror, my income is going to be 6x higher, CCP why must you torment us in this way?"


Except there ain't gonna be any ice for most of us, who don't do Ice Camping. So it may be 60x profits, it's just nobody gets them.


you know exactly where the ice will be, as a miner you always have this really crazy option of mining ore until the ice sites respawn.

if you're not sure how you do this then you dock in a station, remove your ice harvesters and ice harvester upgrades, and replace them with strip miners and mining laser upgrades, then you undock and warp to an asteroid belt, from there it's pretty much the same as ice mining.



The horror. Being forced to mine 30mil/hr scordite while waiting for the 40mil/hr ice anom to respawn.


i know right? mining ore like some kind of savage. positively primitive.
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#242 - 2013-04-28 20:27:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Basil Pupkin
Dave Stark wrote:
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Mynna is telling me that hi-sec ice mining is going to be upwards of 40M/hr

"Oh god the horrror, my income is going to be 6x higher, CCP why must you torment us in this way?"


Except there ain't gonna be any ice for most of us, who don't do Ice Camping. So it may be 60x profits, it's just nobody gets them.


you know exactly where the ice will be, as a miner you always have this really crazy option of mining ore until the ice sites respawn.

if you're not sure how you do this then you dock in a station, remove your ice harvesters and ice harvester upgrades, and replace them with strip miners and mining laser upgrades, then you undock and warp to an asteroid belt, from there it's pretty much the same as ice mining.



The horror. Being forced to mine 30mil/hr scordite while waiting for the 40mil/hr ice anom to respawn.


i know right? mining ore like some kind of savage. positively primitive.


I just found my (probably last) Large Hedbergite gravimetric, so I'm in a good mood. No concurents so far, seems like everybody and his dog is getting ready for Ice Camping by stockpiling ice.

On a sidenote, ore mining will NOT be worth 30M/hour in odyssey. I wonder if ratting in soon-to-be-abandoned belts is going to beat mining in ISK/hour....

ED: Since I don't have mindlink implant, scordite mining already fell below 30M/hour for me, with the 15% pyerite price drop on jita.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#243 - 2013-04-28 20:30:30 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:

On a sidenote, ore mining will NOT be worth 30M/hour in odyssey. I wonder if ratting in soon-to-be-abandoned belts is going to beat mining in ISK/hour....


Oh lawdy, we got oursel's an honest-to-goodness hisec ratter heyeah!
Dave Stark
#244 - 2013-04-28 20:33:16 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
I just found my (probably last) Large Hedbergite gravimetric, so I'm in a good mood. No concurents so far, seems like everybody and his dog is getting ready for Ice Camping by stockpiling ice.

On a sidenote, ore mining will NOT be worth 30M/hour in odyssey. I wonder if ratting in soon-to-be-abandoned belts is going to beat mining in ISK/hour....


ice is worth 20m/hour right now, and doesn't require anywhere near as much attention as ore mining, it's not hard to see why people are doing it.

"you get Trit around 4 isk/unit, Pyerite at 7, Mexallon around 35, and Isogen at about 90. Nocxium, Zydrine and Megacyte look about as they do now." ~ mynnna's prediction on mineral prices, taken from his latest TMC article.

pyrox, 27m/hour. close enough.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#245 - 2013-04-28 20:34:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Basil Pupkin wrote:

And see it already mined down by dudes who camped the system since the patch rollout, knew exact respawn time (which made you arrive at least 5 minutes late), and who just happen to have a few catalysts ready in case of... you.

Oh noes competition for resources in a primarily PvP game.Roll

If you want it enough, and somebody else has it, then take it from them, game mechanics are already in place for doing so. You can wardec them, or if they're in NPC corps, suicide gank them or bump them away from the ice with MWD cruisers using alts. If that's not your bag, hire people to do it on your behalf.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#246 - 2013-04-28 20:37:15 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:

And see it already mined down by dudes who camped the system since the patch rollout, knew exact respawn time (which made you arrive at least 5 minutes late), and who just happen to have a few catalysts ready in case of... you.

Oh noes competition for resources in a primarily PvP game.Roll

If you want it enough and somebody else has it then take it from them, game mechanics are already in place for doing so. You can wardec them, or if they're in NPC corps, suicide gank them with alts to take what you feel is yours.


If only eve had PvP not tied to "more skillpoints always win" formula, I'd try it before 2016. Right now, there is no way to fit into PvP niche with just 2-3 years old account.

Suicide ganking works both ways, so it's not an option.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Dave Stark
#247 - 2013-04-28 20:39:16 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
If only eve had PvP not tied to "more skillpoints always win" formula, I'd try it before 2016. Right now, there is no way to fit into PvP niche with just 2-3 years old account.

Suicide ganking works both ways, so it's not an option.


complete and utter bollocks.

sp = success isn't how pvp works.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#248 - 2013-04-28 20:42:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Basil Pupkin wrote:

If only eve had PvP not tied to "more skillpoints always win" formula, I'd try it before 2016. Right now, there is no way to fit into PvP niche with just 2-3 years old account.

Suicide ganking works both ways, so it's not an option.

I have one word for most of that post, it's bollocks Dave beat me to stating the obvious. You don't need eleventybillion SP to PvP, you can be effective with a new character in a matter of hours, 20 hours at most see you in a basic T1/meta destroyer, 2 weeks see you using tech 2 stuff and flying an effective T2/high meta gank destroyer if you have money to burn.
HTFU

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#249 - 2013-04-28 20:42:36 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
"you get Trit around 4 isk/unit, Pyerite at 7, Mexallon around 35, and Isogen at about 90. Nocxium, Zydrine and Megacyte look about as they do now." ~ mynnna's prediction on mineral prices, taken from his latest TMC article.


That is an overoptimistic prediction as it looks to me, and even like this, hisec mining won't survive.
Ice is getting camped, so you may forget it existed, belts are going to be worth about as much as L3 (not even L4 lol) so it's a contest for new gravimetric anomalies...
Let's see if there's going to be enough of them. Belts turn completely useless though anyway.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#250 - 2013-04-28 20:44:11 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


be a bro, sell it to me at a reduced price instead. you make isk, i make isk, AND you **** off the miners.


Were I to make a list of the people whom I'd least expect to have the words "be a bro" directed at, Solstice Project would have been at the top of the list.
This can be taken as a compliment, although i don't really know your POV.
To my defense, though ... you don't know me ingame. :p
Forums are a totally different act. ^_^
Dave Stark
#251 - 2013-04-28 20:44:59 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
"you get Trit around 4 isk/unit, Pyerite at 7, Mexallon around 35, and Isogen at about 90. Nocxium, Zydrine and Megacyte look about as they do now." ~ mynnna's prediction on mineral prices, taken from his latest TMC article.


That is an overoptimistic prediction as it looks to me, and even like this, hisec mining won't survive.
Ice is getting camped, so you may forget it existed, belts are going to be worth about as much as L3 (not even L4 lol) so it's a contest for new gravimetric anomalies...
Let's see if there's going to be enough of them. Belts turn completely useless though anyway.


no it's not, it's a very realistic one.

you heard it here first guys. 3m/isk hour less will RUIN high sec mining.
do you actually read what you type before you hit post?
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#252 - 2013-04-28 20:46:02 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
That is an overoptimistic prediction as it looks to me, and even like this, hisec mining won't survive.
How does that even make sense ?
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#253 - 2013-04-28 20:47:57 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
"you get Trit around 4 isk/unit, Pyerite at 7, Mexallon around 35, and Isogen at about 90. Nocxium, Zydrine and Megacyte look about as they do now." ~ mynnna's prediction on mineral prices, taken from his latest TMC article.


That is an overoptimistic prediction as it looks to me, and even like this, hisec mining won't survive.
Ice is getting camped, so you may forget it existed, belts are going to be worth about as much as L3 (not even L4 lol) so it's a contest for new gravimetric anomalies...
Let's see if there's going to be enough of them. Belts turn completely useless though anyway.


no it's not, it's a very realistic one.

you heard it here first guys. 3m/isk hour less will RUIN high sec mining.
do you actually read what you type before you hit post?


27M past odyssey? It's the best you can get in a belt now, in odyssey top belt mining is going to be half of that. Incentive to mine with this: Zero. Zero incentive means dead profession.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#254 - 2013-04-28 20:48:49 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
That is an overoptimistic prediction as it looks to me.
That's because his prediction is based on empirics, facts, and a bit of maths, whereas your predictions have no basis. So of course his will differ from yours.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#255 - 2013-04-28 20:49:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
In any way ...

Completely ignoring what i have learned from dave,
namely that no matter what minerals are worth,
miners actually always make the same amount of money relative to what everything else costs ...
(did i say that the right way ?)

If the masses of miners were smart. they'd hire suicide gankers to get rid of competition ...
... but sadly, only a few actually are smart ...
Basil Pupkin
Republic Military School
#256 - 2013-04-28 20:51:43 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
In any way ...

Completely ignoring what i have learned from dave,
namely that no matter what minerals are worth,
miners actually always make the same amount of money relative to what everything else costs ...
(did i say that the right way ?)

If the masses of miners were smart. they'd hide suicide gankers to get rid of competition ...
... but sadly, only a few actually are smart ...


There is no competition right now, so every account in catalyst might as well be mining.
There may be so much competition in odyssey, that every account in catalyst is going to meet two catalysts already ganking his target.

Being teh freightergankbear automatically puts you below missionbear and minerbear in carebear hierarchy.

If you're about to make "this will make eve un-eve" argument, odds are you are defending some utterly horrible mechanics against a good change.
Dave Stark
#257 - 2013-04-28 20:51:59 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
27M past odyssey? It's the best you can get in a belt now, in odyssey top belt mining is going to be half of that. Incentive to mine with this: Zero. Zero incentive means dead profession.


yes, 27m in odyssey as i just pointed out. if that's the best you can get in a belt now then clearly nothing will change.
so you agree mining will be fine. took you long enough.
Dave Stark
#258 - 2013-04-28 20:53:14 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
miners actually always make the same amount of money relative to what everything else costs ...
(did i say that the right way ?)


yes, purchasing power is a constant. it's a great thing mining has going for it.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#259 - 2013-04-28 20:53:57 UTC
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
"you get Trit around 4 isk/unit, Pyerite at 7, Mexallon around 35, and Isogen at about 90. Nocxium, Zydrine and Megacyte look about as they do now." ~ mynnna's prediction on mineral prices, taken from his latest TMC article.


That is an overoptimistic prediction as it looks to me, and even like this, hisec mining won't survive.
Ice is getting camped, so you may forget it existed, belts are going to be worth about as much as L3 (not even L4 lol) so it's a contest for new gravimetric anomalies...
Let's see if there's going to be enough of them. Belts turn completely useless though anyway.

Miners used to get 2 isk/unit Trit when I started out in EVE. The hulk was at 145m back then. Somehow they did not perish.

Remove standings and insurance.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#260 - 2013-04-28 20:55:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Solstice Project
Basil Pupkin wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
In any way ...

Completely ignoring what i have learned from dave,
namely that no matter what minerals are worth,
miners actually always make the same amount of money relative to what everything else costs ...
(did i say that the right way ?)

If the masses of miners were smart. they'd hide suicide gankers to get rid of competition ...
... but sadly, only a few actually are smart ...


There is no competition right now, so every account in catalyst might as well be mining.
There may be so much competition in odyssey, that every account in catalyst is going to meet two catalysts already ganking his target.
I totally fail to understand your logic.

Dave's a miner. Dave taught me that it's completely irrelevant if a miner makes one, three, five, twelve isk per [mineral],
because prices of all the things build with [mineral] will go up/down accordingly,
meaning that the miner actually always makes the same value of money.

I just fail to explain it in a way that makes sense.

Anyway, there is no reason to believe that mining will die out. If supply really goes down,
there will be more people mining, because the prices will go up. And, even if that won't happen so fast,
once everything got cheaper, miners will start mining simply because it's worth it,
compared to what everything else costs.