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(Odyssey) Exploration Site Mechanics

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Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#501 - 2013-06-10 17:19:35 UTC
CCP asked up to speak up about this over the next couple of weeks so they could consider whether or not to patch it. I think it is important for people to voice their concerns on their likes and don't likes of the system for them to consider. All other responses regarding "intent" of someone's feedback or replying in a fashion saying "your doing it wrong" really is not constructive feedback to the poster nor to CCP. just sayin Roll
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#502 - 2013-06-10 17:21:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Minmatar Citizen160812
I stink at the mini-game but LOVE the low sec sites. Every bewb and his brother are coming along with a dream of riches and a cargo hold full of goodies.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#503 - 2013-06-10 17:31:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

If you're seeking to get this dumbed down/made easier... or to keep CCP from making it even more challenging through iteration... you're not going to find much support. Especially as people get better at it and discover it's really not all that difficult, merely more entertaining.


I seem to remember only asking for a minor tweak to the scattered can timers, making them last a little longer. mostly for inventory management. I didn't imply anything else.



If needed, minor tweaks will happen. However asking for longer can timers is simply an attempt to become more able to reap all of the rewards by yourself, which is at cross purposes one of the design objectives.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#504 - 2013-06-10 17:33:17 UTC
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
CCP asked up to speak up about this over the next couple of weeks so they could consider whether or not to patch it. I think it is important for people to voice their concerns on their likes and don't likes of the system for them to consider. All other responses regarding "intent" of someone's feedback or replying in a fashion saying "your doing it wrong" really is not constructive feedback to the poster nor to CCP. just sayin Roll

It is when one of the issues is that the poster doesn't realize there are methods available to overcome (at least to some degree) the "problem" without needing a change to the game mechanics.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#505 - 2013-06-10 17:34:11 UTC
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
this does not always work. sure you can see whats inside but that does not determine you will get that loot. If you see whats inside is a BPC, then yes, click all data's till you get it. I have noticed though that other valuable loot items are not consistently in the containers you target. Parts/Materials cans assigned loot is not consistent. If you normally get something through looting parts, if you only loot parts, you might not get any of what you are looking for at all because they were scattered in the materials cans....and vice versa. So it's not a sure thing.


I've not had much time to fully explore the mechanics of this but that doesn't sound right or if it is it sounds bugged, it should work as I described. could it be you've just misunderstood the category the item falls under?

http://neural-boost.com/minicontainer-loot-distribution



appreciate the link but it proves kind of what I'm saying. Just look at the T2 salvage info for relic sites. Dropped in both materials and parts containers. so no, not confused to where things are supposed to drop. but thanks for trying to help though.

when your site spews 5 of each container type, like 5 materials and 5 parts, you won't always get what your are after, and if you do then you are "just getting lucky" If I'm only wanting to farm certain items for production. There are certain things that if you are after only them, you only have to loot as in BPC's and data cans.
Charley en Cedoulain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#506 - 2013-06-10 17:34:57 UTC
Unfortunately, there is no way around multiple resto nodes in hacking attempts completely screwing you out of a successful hack.
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#507 - 2013-06-10 17:38:01 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
CCP asked up to speak up about this over the next couple of weeks so they could consider whether or not to patch it. I think it is important for people to voice their concerns on their likes and don't likes of the system for them to consider. All other responses regarding "intent" of someone's feedback or replying in a fashion saying "your doing it wrong" really is not constructive feedback to the poster nor to CCP. just sayin Roll

It is when one of the issues is that the poster doesn't realize there are methods available to overcome (at least to some degree) the "problem" without needing a change to the game mechanics.



my issues are with timers and some loot allocations. if you are targeting me in particular you are trolling as my posts had not indicated anything other.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#508 - 2013-06-10 17:42:23 UTC
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
CCP asked up to speak up about this over the next couple of weeks so they could consider whether or not to patch it. I think it is important for people to voice their concerns on their likes and don't likes of the system for them to consider. All other responses regarding "intent" of someone's feedback or replying in a fashion saying "your doing it wrong" really is not constructive feedback to the poster nor to CCP. just sayin Roll

It is when one of the issues is that the poster doesn't realize there are methods available to overcome (at least to some degree) the "problem" without needing a change to the game mechanics.



my issues are with timers and some loot allocations. if you are targeting me in particular you are trolling as my posts had not indicated anything other.

I'm not trolling you. I'm pointing out that the sites are not supposed to be 100% predictable on how the loot drops... and that if you want to be assured of getting it all you NEED TO BRING A FRIEND.

This is by design.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Minmatar Citizen160812
The LGBT Last Supper
#509 - 2013-06-10 17:42:31 UTC
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
this does not always work. sure you can see whats inside but that does not determine you will get that loot. If you see whats inside is a BPC, then yes, click all data's till you get it. I have noticed though that other valuable loot items are not consistently in the containers you target. Parts/Materials cans assigned loot is not consistent. If you normally get something through looting parts, if you only loot parts, you might not get any of what you are looking for at all because they were scattered in the materials cans....and vice versa. So it's not a sure thing.


I've not had much time to fully explore the mechanics of this but that doesn't sound right or if it is it sounds bugged, it should work as I described. could it be you've just misunderstood the category the item falls under?

http://neural-boost.com/minicontainer-loot-distribution



If I'm only wanting to farm certain items for production.


The new system is to discourage farming and it looks like it's working. You'll need to take chance based stuff just like anything else...hell I would like to have players drop everything when they die but alas...no...the loot fairy either giveth or taketh away.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#510 - 2013-06-10 17:51:36 UTC
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
appreciate the link but it proves kind of what I'm saying. Just look at the T2 salvage info for relic sites. Dropped in both materials and parts containers. so no, not confused to where things are supposed to drop. but thanks for trying to help though.

when your site spews 5 of each container type, like 5 materials and 5 parts, you won't always get what your are after, and if you do then you are "just getting lucky" If I'm only wanting to farm certain items for production. There are certain things that if you are after only them, you only have to loot as in BPC's and data cans.


i see what you mean now. it is kind of a lottery in that regard, yes. though i gather CCP want this to be more of a group oriented activity so they maybe want to frustrate soloers a bit.

forums.  serious business.
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#511 - 2013-06-10 18:08:57 UTC
CCP Bayesian wrote:
Hi everyone, thanks for the reams of feedback. We'll be releasing a devblog/devblogs over the next few days detailing exactly whats coming and how it works so you'll have a lot more information in your hands. I'm going to answer a few specific points that have come up a lot here though:

Colourblind People
We're absolutely aware that we need to make the interface work for the colourblind. All the visuals at the moment are WIP. We have software internally that lets us simulate how the interface would look to you and are using that during development.

Soloing
We are doing nothing to prevent people from soloing. We obviously cannot predict exactly how players will end up using this feature but there is no intention of making it impossible to solo explore and successfully make money from it. CCP RedDawn is a solo explorer and he'd be most upset if we took away his favourite activity!

Twitch Gameplay
We totally understand your concerns about how the scattered can collection will work as it is a departure from how the rest of EVE works. The mechanic itself comes from a mining prototype developed by CCP Veritas and does work well within EVE as far as we can ascertain from our user testing of it. It's not a crazy clickfest as it will take several seconds to pull each can in. We are in a phase of playtesting and refining how long, how fast and how many cans will scatter. The 'twitch' side of it is no more than exists in EVE interacting with the UI now, the main difference is that you are interacting within the space scene itself.



This was posted in this thread on the 29th of April.
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#512 - 2013-06-10 18:09:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Diablo Aeglaeca
Minmatar Citizen160812 wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Skeln Thargensen wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
this does not always work. sure you can see whats inside but that does not determine you will get that loot. If you see whats inside is a BPC, then yes, click all data's till you get it. I have noticed though that other valuable loot items are not consistently in the containers you target. Parts/Materials cans assigned loot is not consistent. If you normally get something through looting parts, if you only loot parts, you might not get any of what you are looking for at all because they were scattered in the materials cans....and vice versa. So it's not a sure thing.


I've not had much time to fully explore the mechanics of this but that doesn't sound right or if it is it sounds bugged, it should work as I described. could it be you've just misunderstood the category the item falls under?

http://neural-boost.com/minicontainer-loot-distribution



If I'm only wanting to farm certain items for production.


The new system is to discourage farming and it looks like it's working. You'll need to take chance based stuff just like anything else...hell I would like to have players drop everything when they die but alas...no...the loot fairy either giveth or taketh away.



gee when I'm farming roids or ice for production or fuel, guess what I get, what I farmed for.....


Also please quit trolling, it has only encouraged farming and it is having a huge impact on the market / economy for all the loot items involved in exploration.
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#513 - 2013-06-10 18:15:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Diablo Aeglaeca
so which is it then? changes to discourage farming? changes to encourage team play? anybody have a clue?

currently this is a solo-farming heaven, low barrier for entry, value of loot items are nearly halved as the prices crash?

you think its getting bad now, just wait until you hear from all of those passive isk players who use R&D agents. Can't wait to hear their thoughts when they realize the value of those data cores they passively farmed for a year are worth 1/3 to a 1/2 what they used to be.
hulka Puhkastu
L.S.C CORPORATION
#514 - 2013-06-10 18:47:01 UTC
Well first off CCP explain me this. I scan after a site and find it. I go to the first relic container and hack it. Then a other player scans after ships and finds me so I go into hiding and wait. He warps in and he finds no ship. he flys around abit and then warp off. I wait 2 more min and then I want to return to the relics cans to hack some more but all are gone. Even the one I have not touched and was about to hack.

WTF IS THAT ****. I mean I must be allowed to stealth and hide between different cans with out the hole site disappearing. It is just stupid if you play smart and check your directional scan and hid (I did not even warp out of the site i did just stealth) and get rewarded with the hole site disappearing.

That is just dumb bug or game mechanic. I hop CCP you fix this.
Charley en Cedoulain
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#515 - 2013-06-10 18:51:52 UTC
That happened to me in Unefsih the other night, I was cloaked waiting for a whole fleet of people to jump out, was cloaked maybe 2 minutes tops and the whole site exploded, had only touched 1 can. Prioritizing Loot > Safety in lowsec is not the way to go.
Johan Toralen
IIIJIIIITIIII
#516 - 2013-06-10 19:15:36 UTC
hulka Puhkastu wrote:
Well first off CCP explain me this. I scan after a site and find it. I go to the first relic container and hack it. Then a other player scans after ships and finds me so I go into hiding and wait. He warps in and he finds no ship. he flys around abit and then warp off. I wait 2 more min and then I want to return to the relics cans to hack some more but all are gone. Even the one I have not touched and was about to hack.

WTF IS THAT ****. I mean I must be allowed to stealth and hide between different cans with out the hole site disappearing. It is just stupid if you play smart and check your directional scan and hid (I did not even warp out of the site i did just stealth) and get rewarded with the hole site disappearing.

That is just dumb bug or game mechanic. I hop CCP you fix this.


You gotta see the positives of it. While you can't cloak for long in a site without it despawning it also means someone else can't wait there cloaked to pop you. Tho i think sites would be more fun for both hunter and prey if cloaking was a-ok. I also don't see the point of sites despawning from the probe scanner after the first container is hacked. Would make for some interesting situations if the competition could chime in halfway through.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#517 - 2013-06-10 19:22:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Ranger 1
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
so which is it then? changes to discourage farming? changes to encourage team play? anybody have a clue?

currently this is a solo-farming heaven, low barrier for entry, value of loot items are nearly halved as the prices crash?

you think its getting bad now, just wait until you hear from all of those passive isk players who use R&D agents. Can't wait to hear their thoughts when they realize the value of those data cores they passively farmed for a year are worth 1/3 to a 1/2 what they used to be.

And yet you complain about not being able to farm specific loot. I think you'd better get your argument straight.

Yes, solo play is still possible and profitable.
Yes, it is more difficult to farm specific loot with 100% accuracy.
Yes, to get 100% of the now larger (and more valuable) drops you need to bring a friend, and presumably split it with him.
Yes, there will probably be some tweaks to can dispersion... but it's doubtful they will make it easier to solo.

Supply and demand will stabilize, as they always do... and if any adjustments to the drops need to be made that is easily done over time. It's going to be a little while before they can get a clear picture as to how prices will be affected, post patch speculation and everyone trying out the new shiney will take a little while to die down... and is not something to base adjustments on just yet.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#518 - 2013-06-10 19:23:24 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:

If you're seeking to get this dumbed down/made easier... or to keep CCP from making it even more challenging through iteration... you're not going to find much support. Especially as people get better at it and discover it's really not all that difficult, merely more entertaining.


I seem to remember only asking for a minor tweak to the scattered can timers, making them last a little longer. mostly for inventory management. I didn't imply anything else.



If needed, minor tweaks will happen. However asking for longer can timers is simply an attempt to become more able to reap all of the rewards by yourself, which is at cross purposes one of the design objectives.



1st off, I was fine being able to reap the benefits from before just fine thanks. I actually needed help in the previous version...
the new version is counter intuitive to your "design objectives" stated in your argument because now it only takes me 1 person to do it...lol


you are trolling?

CCP Bayesian
#519 - 2013-06-10 19:28:37 UTC
Johan Toralen wrote:

You gotta see the positives of it. While you can't cloak for long in a site without it despawning it also means someone else can't wait there cloaked to pop you. Tho i think sites would be more fun for both hunter and prey if cloaking was a-ok. I also don't see the point of sites despawning from the probe scanner after the first container is hacked. Would make for some interesting situations if the competition could chime in halfway through.


If CCP Prime checked his changes in for the patch tomorrow these issues should be fixed. The sites will despawn on completion, when all containers have been either failed or hacked successfully rather than at any other time. The probe scan problem in particular was a regression from the previous behaviour. The cloaking a somewhat over zealous fix for the problem of cloaked ships keeping other kinds of sites around indefinitely and preventing their respawn.

EVE Software Engineer Team Space Glitter
Diablo Aeglaeca
Dark Alliance
#520 - 2013-06-10 19:31:38 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:
Diablo Aeglaeca wrote:
so which is it then? changes to discourage farming? changes to encourage team play? anybody have a clue?

currently this is a solo-farming heaven, low barrier for entry, value of loot items are nearly halved as the prices crash?

you think its getting bad now, just wait until you hear from all of those passive isk players who use R&D agents. Can't wait to hear their thoughts when they realize the value of those data cores they passively farmed for a year are worth 1/3 to a 1/2 what they used to be.

And yet you complain about not being able to farm specific loot. I think you'd better get your argument straight.

Yes, solo play is still possible and profitable.
Yes, it is more difficult to farm specific loot with 100% accuracy.
Yes, to get 100% of the now larger (and more valuable) drops you need to bring a friend, and presumably split it with him.
Yes, there will probably be some tweaks to can dispersion... but it's doubtful they will make it easier to solo.

Supply and demand will stabilize, as they always do... and if any adjustments to the drops need to be made that is easily done over time. It's going to be a little while before they can get a clear picture as to how prices will be affected, post patch speculation and everyone trying out the new shiney will take a little while to die down... and is not something to base adjustments on just yet.



why do i get the feeling you are CCP trying to sell me an idea I didn't ask for and convince me that this system is better than the way I LIKED IT BEFORE. please leave me alone, I don't like it. That's my opinion. Those are my suggestions, some of the suggestions I also have seen other players express. Any further inflammatory posts and I will have to report you for trolling. You are singling me out of the rest of the conversation that others are having. WHY? TROLL!