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Please never add the T3 mining ship

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Dave Stark
#41 - 2013-04-28 10:45:46 UTC
Skia Aumer wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Benny Therios wrote:
Actually, on second thoughts, some variety might be nice.

you mean 6 ships for 1 job isn't already enough? (7 if you count the venture)

On that logic, 12 battleships is a massive overkill for 1 job (exploding other ships) not to say about BC and others. Which is false. Means your logic is flawed.

As for original post. I have no idea where you've heard of T3 mining ships, but they will appear eventually. (EVE is going to last forever, right?)
Resistance is futile.
But I'd like to see ring mining first.


it's not a flawed logic when there are many roles in combat yet mining is mining. hence why there exists a plethora of different types of combat ships. beyond the 12 you just listed.
you've just compared apples to oranges. it's a silly comparison.
Suzanne Winters
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-04-28 10:57:21 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Skia Aumer wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Benny Therios wrote:
Actually, on second thoughts, some variety might be nice.

you mean 6 ships for 1 job isn't already enough? (7 if you count the venture)

On that logic, 12 battleships is a massive overkill for 1 job (exploding other ships) not to say about BC and others. Which is false. Means your logic is flawed.

As for original post. I have no idea where you've heard of T3 mining ships, but they will appear eventually. (EVE is going to last forever, right?)
Resistance is futile.
But I'd like to see ring mining first.


it's not a flawed logic when there are many roles in combat yet mining is mining. hence why there exists a plethora of different types of combat ships. beyond the 12 you just listed.
you've just compared apples to oranges. it's a silly comparison.



No he hasn't. He's followed your own logic to its conclusion. Combat is as much one job as Mining is - attack ships, combat ships, logi ships, drone boats etc, all do the exact same job. Fight. No different to your Ninja Mining, Ice Mining, Ore Mining etc. Hell, even Mining ships need logistics in the form of an Orca.
And Ninja-mining is hardly a waste of time. I get all my Zydrine from that. t2 Venture would be fantastic, but I don't see why we could never get a t3 mining ship for out '1 job' when you have t3 ships for combat

Director of Administration, Passionate Enterprises
Dave Stark
#43 - 2013-04-28 11:07:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Suzanne Winters wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Skia Aumer wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Benny Therios wrote:
Actually, on second thoughts, some variety might be nice.

you mean 6 ships for 1 job isn't already enough? (7 if you count the venture)

On that logic, 12 battleships is a massive overkill for 1 job (exploding other ships) not to say about BC and others. Which is false. Means your logic is flawed.

As for original post. I have no idea where you've heard of T3 mining ships, but they will appear eventually. (EVE is going to last forever, right?)
Resistance is futile.
But I'd like to see ring mining first.


it's not a flawed logic when there are many roles in combat yet mining is mining. hence why there exists a plethora of different types of combat ships. beyond the 12 you just listed.
you've just compared apples to oranges. it's a silly comparison.



No he hasn't. He's followed your own logic to its conclusion. Combat is as much one job as Mining is - attack ships, combat ships, logi ships, drone boats etc, all do the exact same job. Fight. No different to your Ninja Mining, Ice Mining, Ore Mining etc. Hell, even Mining ships need logistics in the form of an Orca.
And Ninja-mining is hardly a waste of time. I get all my Zydrine from that. t2 Venture would be fantastic, but I don't see why we could never get a t3 mining ship for out '1 job' when you have t3 ships for combat


no he didn't, he just compared apples to oranges.

combat is not one job, at all. that's why a combat fleet has tackle, boosters, dps, reps, probes, scouts, etc. where as a mining fleet just has... miners (minus 2 characters to boost and haul, or 1 if you get your miners to sync their cycles so you never drop bonuses while hauling like a pro).
i won't deny there are parallels but none that allow you to make the comparison that was being made.
the needs of a combat fleet are more complex than "shoot the flashy red", whereas the needs of a mining fleet are seldom more complex than "move ore from asteroid to station"

and yes, ninja mining is a waste of time it has been proven again and again. mining worth while quantities of less valuable ore is more profitable than mining stupidly small quantities of slightly more lucrative ore. not that i'm telling you how to play your game, i'm just pointing out how inefficient it is.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#44 - 2013-04-28 12:47:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Felsusguy
Dave Stark wrote:


you mean 6 ships for 1 job isn't already enough? (7 if you count the venture)

Over a hundred ships for one job: combat.

I broke your logic.

Dave Stark wrote:
i won't deny there are parallels but none that allow you to make the comparison that was being made.
the needs of a combat fleet are more complex than "shoot the flashy red", whereas the needs of a mining fleet are seldom more complex than "move ore from asteroid to station"

You are confusing needs with goals. The goal is to move the ore to the station from the asteroid, yes, but then again, the goal in combat is (generally) to blow up the other ship. Your analogy does not work because you do not apply it equally to both sides.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#45 - 2013-04-28 12:56:10 UTC
Part of the issue with EvE right now is that it is almost entirely combat focused. Okay, that may not be an issue at all, but as our ships are being balanced and the systems are being put into place which make all of this stronger, combat needs less and less focus.

Industry, on the other hand? I'm thinking with the devs on this one, but Industry needs a serious expansion. New ships, new roles, new jobs to do, and new content.

It's easy for a player who focuses on industry to just blow off how in-depth and complex even PVE combat can be, much less PvP. They see it as just blowing things up, something you do when you've got too much isk and are bored or are wanting some giggles as you ruin someone else's day. They do not understand what it is to dedicate yourself entirely to it, learning not only the ships you fly, but what is flown against you, and keeping up with all the changes and possibilities.

Why can't industry have all that depth and complexity of design? I recently went from being a combat pilot to an industry pilot, and in two months time I've covered almost all my bases. I'm producing cruiser hulls, got bpos in the cooker being researched, I'm trading goods on the market and am 20 days from a freighter to do mass hauls. I'm 10 days from exhumers, and already am using all t2 mining gear. I've got Planetary interaction going for almost no skill, and have been throwing exploration in there just to give me something to do.

Right now, there are a lot of individual pieces to industry, but not a one is very complex or involving.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Dave Stark
#46 - 2013-04-28 13:27:45 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:


you mean 6 ships for 1 job isn't already enough? (7 if you count the venture)

Over a hundred ships for one job: combat.

I broke your logic.

Dave Stark wrote:
i won't deny there are parallels but none that allow you to make the comparison that was being made.
the needs of a combat fleet are more complex than "shoot the flashy red", whereas the needs of a mining fleet are seldom more complex than "move ore from asteroid to station"

You are confusing needs with goals. The goal is to move the ore to the station from the asteroid, yes, but then again, the goal in combat is (generally) to blow up the other ship. Your analogy does not work because you do not apply it equally to both sides.

the aim of combat as an activity is to do that, not the aim of the ship. stop confusing the two.
*shrug* bored of arguing the irrelevant point.

either way they need to fix t2 ships before they even consider making t3 ships.
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#47 - 2013-04-28 15:07:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Tchulen
T3 mining ship! Awesome! Yeah, totally have to be added to the game.

To the naysayers, nobody is forcing you to buy one or fly one. What does it matter to you if it's added?

Edit - Also, how on earth are tech II mining ships broken? They appear to be a better version of their T1 counterparts which seems about right to me.
androch
LitlCorp
#48 - 2013-04-28 19:00:43 UTC
with the barge changes why would we ever need a t3
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#49 - 2013-04-28 19:10:14 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
the aim of combat as an activity is to do that, not the aim of the ship

A large portion of combat-based ships in EVE are indeed intended to blow the other ship up directly.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Dave Stark
#50 - 2013-04-28 19:13:26 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
the aim of combat as an activity is to do that, not the aim of the ship

A large portion of combat-based ships in EVE are indeed intended to blow the other ship up directly.


unlike mining ships where it isn't a portion of them, it's all 7.
NekoKitten
Neko Industry 'n' PvE
#51 - 2013-04-28 19:18:01 UTC
I vote for a capital industrial strip mining ship.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#52 - 2013-05-02 08:18:12 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
the aim of combat as an activity is to do that, not the aim of the ship

A large portion of combat-based ships in EVE are indeed intended to blow the other ship up directly.


unlike mining ships where it isn't a portion of them, it's all 7.

That's not including the Orca and Rorqual.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.
Danni stark
#53 - 2013-05-02 09:00:35 UTC
Felsusguy wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
Felsusguy wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
the aim of combat as an activity is to do that, not the aim of the ship

A large portion of combat-based ships in EVE are indeed intended to blow the other ship up directly.


unlike mining ships where it isn't a portion of them, it's all 7.

That's not including the Orca and Rorqual.


is that because the orca and rorq aren't mining ships? i think it is!

Ice Mining Skill Plan.
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