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You know how some people like to claim most PVP happens in hisec?
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Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#121 - 2013-04-29 12:59:54 UTC
Georgina Parmala wrote:

1.You make some sweeping generalizations that are not necessarily true and in some cases contradict themselves. First off, as I recall, Marmite has killed several "goon" freighters rather recently in their war. Null blocks already do blow up each other's freighters, be they in or out of corp. Most are simply targeted because it is a profitable gank thanks to a greedy pilot.

2.. . . You claim sec status is the problem they are circumventing . . . The superior skills of the main are simply not needed or worth the travel time.

3.You say they would get ganked coming to high sec. Why would you train production efficiency and mass production on a combat character, no matter where you live? It makes far more sense to simply make a new one(s) for that, who will sit in the station with the production slots rather than traveling back and forth. Why move that alt to null, when you have better capacity in high and would have to bring in larger m3 of materials from high than bringing in the finished product?

4.Who doesn't use an out of corp hauler alt? . . .

5.Who said PvP doesn't happen in High Sec? . . . "Normal" PvP does not happen in High Sec.

6.I never said [x]. I never said [y] for that matter. I also never claimed [z]. Nowhere did I mention [a]. Nowhere did I tell you [b]. Nor did I say [c]. I find it amusing how deeply you tie my views into [n].

7.I think we'll agree most people would consider this game split into four or five distinct areas with their own rule set. High Sec, Low Sec, NPC Null, Sov Null, W-Space.

8.I claim high sec PvP is not "normal", because the restrictions mentioned in my post are only present in that one specific area of space. Nowhere else do I have to fit out a special minimalist ship to destroy an unarmed vessel, because "the unarmed ship is guaranteed to kill me". I'm considering an NPC response, as opposed to player response as consequence of my actions. As a counter example, stations and docking games are prevalent throughout the game. Even in W-space and systems with no stations, you have POS shields that are used in very similar fashion. So it becomes "normal" in my mind, simply because it's present somewhat consistently throughout the entire game.


1. So, what you seem to be saying is that null alliance players fly around in high sec casually . . . presumably because CONCORD protects them . . . but then their ships get exploded. I think we are on the same page so far.

2. I never claimed sec status or the faction navies were null sec players'/pirates' problem. I claimed they would die horribly to other players if they flew around casually in high sec. They will. (Please see #1 above.)

3. Not everyone uses alts. Not everyone wants to do just one thing on their character. Not every skill in a line of training is worth leveling to V. Sometimes, you actually benefit more in a specific task by training a skill that is technically "outside" that task. Drones V, for example, beats damn near any other "support" skill at V, even though it may not be strictly related to "mining" or "gunnery" or whatever you're doing.

So, if you have just one character, you kind of have to travel. Spaceships are actually travelling devices, so, it seems kind of crazy to me to play an internet space-travel-devices game and not travel . . . through space. That's just me, though. I wouldn't try to dictate to you how to play. It's just that most of my tactics and strategies revolve around travelling . . . through space . . . in my space-travelling-device . . . in this internet space-travelling-devices game. I guess travelling through space is just one small aspect of this much larger, broader game, though. Warp Drive Inactive! Yeehaw!

4. I don't use out-of-corp hauler alts, and not just because SWA can't be war dec'ed or because I don't use alts. I have used courier contracts to move stuff around, on occasion, and have moved stuff around on courier contract for others. If I recall correctly, there are even entire corporations dedicated to the task of moving other people's stuff around.

5. Yeah? Well, "wholesome" PVP doesn't happen in null sec. Your move!

6. You're not the only one who can play that game. Check this out: I never said that you said x, y, z, a, b, or c. And, what makes you think I tie your views into [n]?

7. No, I don't think we would agree on that. I haven't asked a lot of people about it.

8. Consider that if there was no CONCORD, there would be no "unarmed" vessels. Every ship would have some means of self-defense. And, to say that you have to fit minimally is another way of saying that you fit your ship for the task at hand, and don't risk more than you need to. In high sec, it would be stupid to suicide a lightly tanked industrial or a shuttle in a faction battleship. Well, that goes for ALL areas of the game. You don't camp a gate in low sec or null in a faction battleship, either, unless you are ready to lose it. In either case, there are ways to engage without losing your ship, but there are just no guarantees in this game, not of success or survival. CONCORD doesn't let you survive indiscriminantly firing on ships, but CONCORD does provide the environment where not everyone is prepared to be fired on without warning. If CONCORD disappeared, so would all those juicy targets. It's cuts both ways.

I see your point about high sec PVP being an abnormal case. I just don't see a reason for making that point, especially since CONCORD can be so easily circumvented or the result of a CONCORD response mitigated. And, by that same reasoning, anyone who engages in PVP via jump bridge is engaging in abnormal PVP. Anyone who is engaging in PVP under wormhole effects is engaging in abnormal PVP. Anyone who uses a doomsday device is engaging in abnormal PVP. The list can go on, but what value is there in saying "PVP in space_x is normal. PVP in space_y is abnormal."?
Akatenshi Xi
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#122 - 2013-04-29 13:47:39 UTC
Only reason null sec has such a high average of kills compared to other space is because your land lords move you about like cattle and get you into no skill blob fests.

Stop large blob fleets in null sec for a few months and watch those stats change a lot. If you are just looking at the isk value, people don't lose caps in high sec like they do null sec, that automatically skews the graph if you are looking at just the isk value of it.