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You know how some people like to claim most PVP happens in hisec?
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Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#61 - 2013-04-26 02:28:38 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Meh nevermind, I don't feel like explaining it.


Are you not entertained!?

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#62 - 2013-04-26 02:33:54 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
considering the TINY % of players that live in WHs, it's not that surprising.
if you were looking at isk loss per kill, id be willing to be WHs would be top of the list.

Which goes to support the whole idea of wormhole space being a carebear haven.

wait what? that isnt even remotely what i said... >_<

Meh nevermind, I don't feel like explaining it.

You seem to do that not explaining thing a lot, yet express dissatisfaction at people not understanding your point of view.
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#63 - 2013-04-26 02:39:46 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
You know how some people like to claim most PVP happens in hisec?


I don't know of anyone ever claiming that.

Ever since the first time CCP posted ship loss statistics by type of space and separated between pve and pvp losses it's been entirely undisputed that highest has the lowest proportion of ship losses to PVP and the second lowest total PVP losses.

You must be new or something, because the rest of us have been aware of the statistics you posted for literally years.
Some Rando
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#64 - 2013-04-26 02:39:49 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Meh nevermind, I don't feel like explaining it.

You seem to do that not explaining thing a lot, yet express dissatisfaction at people not understanding your point of view.

In the fight against carebears, James, you must be prepared to back up your statements. Otherwise, they will win and that would be a terrible, terrible thing.

CCP has no sense of humour.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#65 - 2013-04-26 03:14:13 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/WzXjyuN.jpg

Whoops, there goes that theory. Turns out if you remove losses to rats, hisec comes in third.


You just refuted an argument that I've never heard anyone make.

So hey . . . well played?


Just because you missed it, doesn't mean that it never happens. The "more PvP happens in hi-sec, thefore buff CONCORD/nerf 0.0/blue donut" argument is pretty common.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-04-26 03:20:56 UTC
The graph is a measure of how valuable the ship hulls are that are lost in high sec, low sec, null sec, and wormhole space.

The graph is NOT a measure of how much ISK is destroyed in player versus player combat in each respective region.

The graph is NOT a measure of how much ship combat takes place in each respective region.

The graph may not be a measure of the industrial capacity of null, but it sure IS a measure (if incomplete) of null's ability to acquire ships for PVP. (Looks like it's not a problem for them.)

The graph is NOT a measure of how much player versus player interaction takes place that is not direct ship combat.

The graph says absolutely nothing about WHY or HOW it is that null, despite being a veritable wasteland according to certain null sec players, has mountains of ISK to throw away on PVP.

The graph says absolutely nothing about WHY or HOW ships tend to die in each region. (Do they get stuck in bubbles? Do they get locked out of stations? Do they get tackled in belts or anomalies? Or do pilots just sit there and die because their fleet commander said so and, because, well, it ain't like they paid for the ship anyway?)

The graph says absolutely nothing about the socialization process that players are subjected to from very early on in the game whereby they are led to believe that null=PVP and high-sec=PVE.

It's hard to draw conclusions about such things without more than just 4 squiggly lines on a gray background.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#67 - 2013-04-26 03:29:26 UTC
it also shows how little PvP wormholes have in comparison to the rest of eve, despite the average PvP ship in wormholes costing significantly more than ships used for PvP elsewhere

heh

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#68 - 2013-04-26 04:20:35 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:


The graph says absolutely nothing about WHY or HOW it is that null, despite being a veritable wasteland according to certain null sec players, has mountains of ISK to throw away on PVP.
.


you're kidding right?

I get my null sec pvp isk from incursions....in high sec.
Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-04-26 04:30:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Mayhaw Morgan
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:


The graph says absolutely nothing about WHY or HOW it is that null, despite being a veritable wasteland according to certain null sec players, has mountains of ISK to throw away on PVP.
.


you're kidding right?

I get my null sec pvp isk from incursions....in high sec.


So, your CHOICE is to do PVE in high sec and your CHOICE is to do PVP in null. Maybe you could shed some light on why that is.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#70 - 2013-04-26 04:32:55 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Captain Tardbar wrote:
Maybe I've been going about this argument all wrong.

Maybe my argument should have been "It's not that there are less losses in hi-sec, its just null-sec players are just bad at the game and tend to die more in foolish ways and should have never undocked in the first place."

Hopefully that is inflammatory way to keep this discussion going.

I mean seriously, why all the losses? It means someone doesn't know how not to die.

Or that the hi-sec gankers aren't doing their job well enough.

Are you really that stupid, or are you just trolling?


c. All the above?
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#71 - 2013-04-26 04:38:48 UTC
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
Mayhaw Morgan wrote:


The graph says absolutely nothing about WHY or HOW it is that null, despite being a veritable wasteland according to certain null sec players, has mountains of ISK to throw away on PVP.
.


you're kidding right?

I get my null sec pvp isk from incursions....in high sec.


So, you're CHOICE is to do PVE in high sec and your CHOICE is to do PVP in null. Maybe you could shed some light on why that is.


No, its not my choice, I'd rather PVE in null, but (as has been demonstrated time and again), it's just easier to do it in high sec uninterupted. Hell, my Machariel can make 105 to 120 mil per hour in null anoms, but I have to take lots of percautions, watch local and intel etc.

Or I can fly the exact same mach in a high sec incursion fleet, the FC does the "driving", a fleet of logi reps me if I get shot, I don't have to wath local or intel, and NO ONE can take sov from the Amarr Empire (where many high sec incursions happen because it's so big). And make the exact same 105-120+ mil an hour NOT counting Concord LP......

So my "choice" is be where I want to be and deal with all different kinds of danger or be totally safe and make the EXACT same amount of isk.

Some "choice".
Angelique Duchemin
Team Evil
#72 - 2013-04-26 04:55:49 UTC
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
http://i.imgur.com/WzXjyuN.jpg

Whoops, there goes that theory. Turns out if you remove losses to rats, hisec comes in third.



Never heard anyone make that claim but whatever. Nice chart. Makes me wonder what happened at the peaks.

The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity.

Mayhaw Morgan
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-04-26 04:59:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Mayhaw Morgan
Jenn aSide wrote:


No, its not my choice, I'd rather PVE in null, but (as has been demonstrated time and again), it's just easier to do it in high sec uninterupted. Hell, my Machariel can make 105 to 120 mil per hour in null anoms, but I have to take lots of percautions, watch local and intel etc.

Or I can fly the exact same mach in a high sec incursion fleet, the FC does the "driving", a fleet of logi reps me if I get shot, I don't have to wath local or intel, and NO ONE can take sov from the Amarr Empire (where many high sec incursions happen because it's so big). And make the exact same 105-120+ mil an hour NOT counting Concord LP......

So my "choice" is be where I want to be and deal with all different kinds of danger or be totally safe and make the EXACT same amount of isk.

Some "choice".


Well, you could also more safely PVP in high sec, but you choose to do that in null. Whatever your reason, that might have something to do with why more ISK is being spent on ship hulls that die in null than in any other place in game.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2013-04-26 05:24:34 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
You know how some people like to claim most PVP happens in hisec?


I don't know of anyone ever claiming that.

Ever since the first time CCP posted ship loss statistics by type of space and separated between pve and pvp losses it's been entirely undisputed that highest has the lowest proportion of ship losses to PVP and the second lowest total PVP losses.

You must be new or something, because the rest of us have been aware of the statistics you posted for literally years.


When has a lack of facts ever stopped shiptoasting from bad posters?

I have seen a lot of people trying to argue this thing over the years. Normally in threads about risk vs reward in highsec.
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-04-26 05:47:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
You know how some people like to claim most PVP happens in hisec...


There aren't many of those, tbh. I like to claim null sec is fairly safe for a ratter / miner, which it is, as 1. you have people protecting your borders and 2. there are usually region-wide intel channels and 3. anyone entering your system that's not blue is a threat by default (exception being Providence). Note that neither of those has anything to do with the amount of pvp in null, as there will still be constant border clashes and pvp roams.

That said, I'm a bit surprised that WH isk destroyed is that low. I know it has by far the least population, but still, I'd expect it would be fairly popular with gankers because local doesn't reveal them.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-04-26 05:56:30 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
In addition, what makes you think there are more ships lost to pvp in highsec than in null?

i think this is time to repeat some links:

http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/regional-round-up-march-madness.html

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#77 - 2013-04-26 05:58:55 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
Nex apparatu5 wrote:
You know how some people like to claim most PVP happens in hisec...


There aren't many of those, tbh. I like to claim null sec is fairly safe for a ratter / miner, which it is, as 1. you have people protecting your borders and 2. there are usually region-wide intel channels and 3. anyone entering your system that's not blue is a threat by default (exception being Providence). Note that neither of those has anything to do with the amount of pvp in null, as there will still be constant border clashes and pvp roams.

That said, I'm a bit surprised that WH isk destroyed is that low. I know it has by far the least population, but still, I'd expect it would be fairly popular with gankers because local doesn't reveal them.


Problem with WH pvp is that you cant have short roams due to not knowing where a WH will spit you out and the targets tend to on the ball.
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#78 - 2013-04-26 06:10:37 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
I get my null sec pvp isk from incursions....in high sec.

if nullseccers win and high-sec will get nerfed PVE then you will lose too....

bad situation What?

just curious:
- is it big part of nullseccers who support his PvP in 0.0 by ISK from high-sec?
- are they all stupid supporting nerfs for high-sec PvE (thus nerfing their own PvP ability)?

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#79 - 2013-04-26 06:32:17 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
In addition, what makes you think there are more ships lost to pvp in highsec than in null?

i think this is time to repeat some links:

http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/regional-round-up-march-madness.html

That's not going to support your assertion, since there aren't "lowsec regions" and "highsec regions" so you can't separate highsec pvp ship losses out from nullsec ones just from the data he shows there.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#80 - 2013-04-26 06:36:39 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
March rabbit wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
In addition, what makes you think there are more ships lost to pvp in highsec than in null?

i think this is time to repeat some links:

http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/regional-round-up-march-madness.html

That's not going to support your assertion, since there aren't "lowsec regions" and "highsec regions" so you can't separate highsec pvp ship losses out from nullsec ones just from the data he shows there.

agree. it's like graph from OP: just some statistics.

However this info shows that most high+low regions gives more kills that 0.0 regions. Sometimes with >2x difference. Which means that difference between high, low and 0.0 is not as big as you want it to be

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"