Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Not similar. I don't think, personally, that local should be removed in empire space... it does serve a purpose there. However, it shouldn't be infallible. If you remove cloaked vessels from local (and remove the availability of local to cloaked vessels) you also remove the incentive to afk for extended periods of time... namely griefing systems. That's the only reason people AFK cloak... to keep the cowards in systems docked up (bots as well), thus it's a method of isk-denial that depends on the target system's inhabitants inability to function out of fear... in null sec.

The real problem with your proposal is that you make null and wormhole spaces safer. That's the LAST thing they need! The moment you add something like this, you mandate that all wormholes keep a continual net of these probes active to detect whether or not a cloaked vessel is even present... and that's just wrong. You want to change a variety of playstyles simply out of fear of the seen-yet-unknown.

Now... I heard they're making a change so that if someone is cloaked in a plex in null they won't be able to keep it from despawning/respawning elsewhere... that's a good move, I like it. That's taking afk cloaking and abusing it in my personal opinion. But there's nothing wrong with being able to park cloaked in a system for as long as you wish somewhere and simply observe, take notes, and wait...

Because that was not what cloaking was intended for. AFK cloaking really exploded on the scene when the big alliances recently discovered just how useful it is against the smaller ones.

This isn't just Ingvar hiding in his "hole" somewhere. If you are or were in nullsec recently you will see it has become an epidemic. People in alliance chat asking for plex to do AFK cloaking on alts for petes sakes.

The incentive has to go. And removing local wont do that. Just give more incentive to AFK cloak to do real damage against those weaker than the huge alliances in game.

Edit: If it was just Ingvar doing it or just the small potatoes it would be ok. But you cant claim what is going on right now is normal.

Bubble up the system gates and destroy the cloaker who eventually leaves the system.

I am still seeing no difference between somone using a cloak and you using a station.

A station is a fixed visible ATTACKABLE point in space.

so you exactly know what CCP intended cloak for?? How that?
Larger alliances dont need afk cloakers in order to kick you in the balls, they just come, put SBUs in your system, shoot your crap and take the sov.



why?? If he decides to pay a whole account just for camping one single system of eve, why not?? Its a valid decision.


ofc.
Most people do afk cloaking because the people in that system arent killable at all, thanks to local. So if you use the local for your safety, why should an attacker not use the same local for stalking?? Thats all fine.


look above, those "huge alliances" dont need crap like afk cloakers, if they want, they come and steamroll you. Its rather the other way around, afk cloaking is the way to harass larger alliances by smaller ones, because you cant remove them as easily as the sov can be removed, assumed you got a huge amount of people on your side.
You have no clue.

Wormhole space if cloaks were detectable at all due this will become COMPLETELY safe. Just launch one and spam the scan, you will never get ganked again while ratting.

most everyone arguing to keep cloaking the same are those exploiting it. which if anything is the main reason we may not see a change in this area, because ccp is to scared to upset the masses.

but when it comes down to it, cloaking makes no sense at all. everything else about eve follows a reletively sensible logic. and yes we have stealth bombers, but no they are not invisible. cloaking is closer to the technological breakthoughs that allowed t3 ships and their advanced substructures, yet every ship with a high slot can go invisible. it makes complete sense that there would be some form of scanning techology that would be able to track down a cloaked ship. we can find black holes in space, by process of elimination, gravitational pulls and negative space (not an astronomer but know its possible).

and to anyone who tries arguing that afk'ing is a good thing, you have another thing coming. is it not clear that ccp wants to fight afking as much as possible. the motto's of eve are defined by the risk of flying your ship. being docked in a station, should be your "only" safe spot.

now, as far as the OP goes, i dont think it should be so easy. or rather, i dont think you should require a cloakie to warp away to be safe. there was a post that suggested a more involved form of tracking, where if the cloaker was not afk they could swerve around to avoid being pinpointed.

and to the people who were saying they should be able to "spy" on the enemy. thats the weakest argument i have ever heard throughout any post ever... where in all of existance did the spying carreer get so stupid easy??? to be a spy, you should be really good at what you do, and it should take actual skill to blend in or stay hidden. because the enemy does have dogs that they will sniff you out with.

the simple solution would be to completely disconnect the cloaking ship with the chat channels. because that is a form of transmission, and any transmission is tracable. yes this would include private, fleet and corp chats as well. because again, every form of comunication would be a tracable transmission....... oh i cant wait to hear people try to argue that one(stubborn lazy people incapable of adapting)....

its like a kid with a lolipop that fell on the ground, you know you should take it away, but its not gona forgive you for it...

Guys

Just my thoughts on this.

Read many posts about...what's the problem? There isn't a problem. And your point is? etc...

So here goes.

No one does anything in game honestly, without a reason. Be it, docking to buy a module, traveling to a belt to shoot rats etc.

When a neut / red etc enters a system which is obviously mostly static with blues ice mining etc etc, the reason why the neut stays there for hours on end cloaked isn't for Intel (from a non-staging mining system), it's to grief, deny security and potentially attack a hulk at a belt etc.

We've had this all along about 'if he's AFK...what you worrying about'? comments all day / week / year / forever long. The key for the defender is that he doesn't know if the target is AFK AND HAS NO WAY TO PUT THIS TO THE TEST.

He cannot do ANYTHING to test this. You could say, he could warp to a belt in a massive juicy hauler or hulk and paint a big red bulls eye on his ship...but at ANY time, the cloaked neut can warp to a belt, point, attack or drop a cyno.

The advantage is ALWAYS with the cloaked player. He can strike at any time of his choosing. OR, as most do, sit there and provide threat (I remind you of my first point...generally people do things for a reason). The reason of sitting in a system is to provide threat and allow for an opportunity (at their choosing) to engage.

Would you jump your cap ship into a system at a cyno gen with a cloaked red in local? No, neither would I.

Currently, anyone in that system can do the following:

1. Suck it up and sit in station letting their mining kit rust.
2. Call in some friends and arrange a bait. Go mining (and HOPE) that the guy cloaked is NOT AFK and may, hopefully decide to take a chance...pew pew fun)
3. Decide to seek out the cloaked ship by....oh wait...by...oh yes...doing the square root of jack all because if he's cloaked you ain't doing nothing to smoke him out. If he wants to play (and is NOT AFK) he might...else choose option 1.

So, if there is a method to provide a SMALL amount of risk to the cloaked to NOT go AFK but stay active...then all the better.

Mo

There are a lot more options then those three, but most people choose #3 out of laziness.

I've both caught many 'AFK' Cloakers and been caught as an 'AFK' Cloaker. The inventive ways that I've seen are amazing, people just have to think, and think hard about real game mechanics. The answers become quite clear, that even if you don't catch the AFK cloaker, you can make his life, when he is active, a living hell of what to expect next.

Think outside of the box within the context of the game mechanics and the answers become quite clear.

Edit: Most of my best carebearing was done with an AFK Cloaker in system as all the good anoms weren't being hogged. Never lost a ship to a single one.

So you were lucky enough not to be hotdropped. So what?

And living hell? How much does a really good SB fit cost? 20-30M at the most? You die you replace it in less than an hour from your money making main. Or more likely the alliance pays you back for your help driving that small alliance out.

That tankable hulk you pinned and destroyed? 500M that group of ships spider tanking an anom? More than that hulk.


Funny thing is the AFK cloakers have every advantage here including cost. You manage to bait them by wasting hours and they will just be back the next day. Or maybe sooner if they are mad.

My idea will help balance that.