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Help a noob, getting owned by everything.
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Ornstein pekv
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-04-23 21:45:24 UTC
Hello, I recently started playing eve, and made myself a small carrier in mining and salvaging. However I've always been interested in PvP, so I decided to try it out.

So I've tried a few times an lost a 10-15 ships.

Pretty much what I do is buy a rifter, and fit it out with meta 4 and a few tech 2 items. (Meta 4 turrets and faction ammo) and try pvp against other frigates, and I'm getting my ass kicked every time. Doesn't matter if I try passive/active armor tank, cookie cutter etc, al ways getting owned, most times I don't even manage to get my opponents shield down.

So I'm wondering if someone have a few tips?
Might it be that my skills are to low? (as mentioned I only have a few tech 2 items, since I don't have enough skill for it)

I dunno what more to write, and I don't think there is any idea posting my fit, since I've tried new things every time.
I've checked a few builds on the site, but most people in the comment section just flame the build, and those with a high rating are very old and most likely outdated?

So anyway, like I said, a few tips would help, maybe someone know a good noob fitt? Or should I just keep away from pvp until I got good enough skills? And if so, anything particular I should train?
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#2 - 2013-04-23 22:14:26 UTC
I would recommend joining Project Cerberus if you would like to learn pew pew.



Can't believe I'm gonna repeat Super Chairs cheesy line but in EvE:
The best ship is friendship.

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#3 - 2013-04-23 22:28:24 UTC  |  Edited by: chatgris
You can't really compete in solo pvp in a frigate until you've got a good 8 months of focused training under your belt in areas like capacitor, navigation, turret/missile, hull/shield support skills, overheating etc. Yes, you can catch dumb ratters in a BC and solo them, but when you are fighting someone who knows what they are doing 1v1 in a frigate with more SP, you are pretty much SOL.

It doesn't help that the rifter is one of the weaker frigates right now.

(My timing might be off, I did those calculations way back when I think some learning skills were involved, before they dropped the overheating requirements etc).

Once you have those skills, you've got a fighting chance, but in a straight up mirror match you'll generally lose to higher SP pilots.

In the meantime, if you fly with experienced pilots who can teach you the ropes, you can learn how to exploit fitting advantages and start engaging select opponents (e.g. pilots green enough to fly blaster ships against caldari missile frigates). You can also fly in a gang.

But solo pvp is an area where if you don't have both the experience and the SP, you are going to have a very hard time.

EDIT: The guy posting above me - they know their stuff. If you want to do small gang pvp in Caldari FW, they're one of the best picks you can make. I say this as a member of a faction that is at war with them.
Jenahl
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-04-23 22:53:11 UTC
Brave Newbies Inc.

I hear were recruiting.Smile
Zappity
New Eden Tank Testing Services
#5 - 2013-04-23 23:01:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Zappity
This character is only a few months old. Check out the killboard to get an idea of what you should be able to achieve. By no means perfect but not 'getting owned by everything'. The killboards are also very useful in figuring out who you should not engage.

Train your gunnery support skills. They are really important in actually applying the theoretical damage that EFT spits out. Also, get rid of the Rifter and try a Slasher if you are stuck on Minmatar. Rifters are too weak at the moment for a new character.

Much of PvP boils down to controlling range so your navigation skills are also important. Understand where you need to be in order to hit effectively and make sure you can stay there. Kiting fits (either disruptor range or scram range) can be good for low skill characters too.

But please don't fly a Condor. They are hateful.

Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec and nullsec.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#6 - 2013-04-23 23:30:56 UTC
Ornstein pekv wrote:
Pretty much what I do is buy a rifter


Well there's your problem!

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Kahega Amielden
Rifterlings
#7 - 2013-04-24 00:03:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kahega Amielden
I don't agree with the others here that you need tons of SP to win fights. Once your support skills are up to a basic level SP doesn't really mean all that much. Fights are rarely decided by a couple percent here and there..

What matters is that you play to the strengths of your ship and exploit the weaknesses of the opponent's ship, which requires experience and knowledge. I do not recommend trying to learn PVP alone; join a corp.


Also, the Rifter is bad. It's harder to play to your ship's strengths when your ship does not have any.
Super Chair
Project Cerberus
Templis CALSF
#8 - 2013-04-24 01:44:10 UTC
rifter is terrible, get a merlin
Rioghal Morgan
Pixel Navigators
AimogMart
#9 - 2013-04-24 02:04:57 UTC
Destroyers are a new players best friend imo. They can help make up for sp weaknesses with the ship's strengths. If you're already specced towards projectile weapons, then you're already a good part of the way towards being able to be effective with a Thrasher.

Get into a good FW corp or maybe RvB and you'll be blowing people up in no time. Lol
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#10 - 2013-04-24 02:15:07 UTC
chatgris wrote:
Stuff


This isn't exactly correct. If you're sticking with T1 frigs you should be able to be "endgame ready" within a month. Maybe a bit more. But if you engage properly you can win fights. There were some guys who PvP'd on day old characters and kicked ass a while back. ANYWAYS, the rifter is kind of a bad choice TBH. It used to be god-tier but it's fallen on hard times for a newer player. The Slasher can be considered superior in most respects, and is much better for both a newer player and an older player. ALSO, join Faction Warefare. It gets you some helpful allies, and a better way to make isk while you're learning the ropes.

And now, since I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to go through your killboard and telling you how you can suck less.

Look back on these ships you lost:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19374239
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19372316
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19373887
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19378671

First and foremost, you're trying to be cap stable in PvP. Don't bother, being cap stable is overrated. Don't get me wrong, a nos can be a good idea, but any capacitor regen riggings or modules on a PvP ship, ESPECIALLY a frigate, are useless. The fight is over before they can help. Also I notice in one of your ships, you left a low slot empty. I don't know why you did that, but that wasn't a good idea. If you are having trouble fitting, drop the rocket launcher. The only ship slot that is allowed to be empty is a "utility high", which is essentially a high slot that doesn't have a bonused weapon hardpoint. The rifter has one, which can be filled with a rocket launcher, a Nosferatu to help you vs cap warefare, or a neut.

Continuing on the concept of cap warefare, the reason why being cap stable in PvP is overrated is because 5 capacitor regen boosting modules/rigs are basically countered by one energy neutralizer. Thus, the only "acceptable" capacitor boosting modules are ones that boost in quick bursts, allowing you to get cap in between their cap drain cycles. Those modules are Nosferatu, and Capacitor Boosters, which use Cap Booster charges to give quick injections of capacitor. Now on a rifter, a cap booster doesn't really work. I won't explain why cause that's a bit too complicated, but let's just say that none of the "acceptable" ways to fly a rifter have room for it. Nos, however, is acceptable.

Now since you're new, I'm going to suggest you just stay away from active tanked fittings in general. They can work, but of all the fittings, Active Repair styles are probably the most skill point intensive. You are not skill point intensive(yet), so stick with buffers...Unless using an Ancillary Shield Booster. Lol That wasn't sarcasm. ASB are OPish. One more thing, use faction ammo. You don't need to have a ton. Just put like 150 republic fleet [ammo] into your ship when you go into combat. It's a "minor" cost increase for a huge dps increase. All PvP ships use faction ammo, with good reason.

Now I was derpin around in EFT trying to throw something together that you can fit. Here's what my jackoffery has turned out:

[Slasher, Ornstein Pekv's Failship]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II

1MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S
[empty high slot]

Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

This isn't the best fitting out there, but if you downgrade to T1 meta modules as needed this thing shouldn't be amazingly hard to fit. I tried to leave some extra CPU and powergrid free on it. We'll see how well that works out, but meh. Also, here's a fitting on battleclinic I like:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/62801-Slasher-The-Little-Ship-That-Could.html

And one last thing. I noticed you getting blobbed in a lot of your deaths. The greatest strength of the minmatar is we're ******* FAST. Don't feel bad about running away. I still run from fights left and right, and as a solo PvPer you should feel no shame in running if outgunned. Learn to tell when a fight is going **** up and get the heck out. Honestly, as a new player, if you get into a fight, find yourself losing, and manage to slip away to fight another day, that should be considered a VICTORY.

Good luck.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Maximus Hashur
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-04-24 03:57:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Hashur
Garresh wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Stuff


This isn't exactly correct. If you're sticking with T1 frigs you should be able to be "endgame ready" within a month. Maybe a bit more. But if you engage properly you can win fights. There were some guys who PvP'd on day old characters and kicked ass a while back. ANYWAYS, the rifter is kind of a bad choice TBH. It used to be god-tier but it's fallen on hard times for a newer player. The Slasher can be considered superior in most respects, and is much better for both a newer player and an older player. ALSO, join Faction Warefare. It gets you some helpful allies, and a better way to make isk while you're learning the ropes.

And now, since I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to go through your killboard and telling you how you can suck less.

Look back on these ships you lost:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19374239
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19372316
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19373887
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19378671

First and foremost, you're trying to be cap stable in PvP. Don't bother, being cap stable is overrated. Don't get me wrong, a nos can be a good idea, but any capacitor regen riggings or modules on a PvP ship, ESPECIALLY a frigate, are useless. The fight is over before they can help. Also I notice in one of your ships, you left a low slot empty. I don't know why you did that, but that wasn't a good idea. If you are having trouble fitting, drop the rocket launcher. The only ship slot that is allowed to be empty is a "utility high", which is essentially a high slot that doesn't have a bonused weapon hardpoint. The rifter has one, which can be filled with a rocket launcher, a Nosferatu to help you vs cap warefare, or a neut.

Continuing on the concept of cap warefare, the reason why being cap stable in PvP is overrated is because 5 capacitor regen boosting modules/rigs are basically countered by one energy neutralizer. Thus, the only "acceptable" capacitor boosting modules are ones that boost in quick bursts, allowing you to get cap in between their cap drain cycles. Those modules are Nosferatu, and Capacitor Boosters, which use Cap Booster charges to give quick injections of capacitor. Now on a rifter, a cap booster doesn't really work. I won't explain why cause that's a bit too complicated, but let's just say that none of the "acceptable" ways to fly a rifter have room for it. Nos, however, is acceptable.

Now since you're new, I'm going to suggest you just stay away from active tanked fittings in general. They can work, but of all the fittings, Active Repair styles are probably the most skill point intensive. You are not skill point intensive(yet), so stick with buffers...Unless using an Ancillary Shield Booster. Lol That wasn't sarcasm. ASB are OPish. One more thing, use faction ammo. You don't need to have a ton. Just put like 150 republic fleet [ammo] into your ship when you go into combat. It's a "minor" cost increase for a huge dps increase. All PvP ships use faction ammo, with good reason.

Now I was derpin around in EFT trying to throw something together that you can fit. Here's what my jackoffery has turned out:

[Slasher, Ornstein Pekv's Failship]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II

1MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S
[empty high slot]

Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

This isn't the best fitting out there, but if you downgrade to T1 meta modules as needed this thing shouldn't be amazingly hard to fit. I tried to leave some extra CPU and powergrid free on it. We'll see how well that works out, but meh. Also, here's a fitting on battleclinic I like:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/62801-Slasher-The-Little-Ship-That-Could.html

And one last thing. I noticed you getting blobbed in a lot of your deaths. The greatest strength of the minmatar is we're ******* FAST. Don't feel bad about running away. I still run from fights left and right, and as a solo PvPer you should feel no shame in running if outgunned. Learn to tell when a fight is going **** up and get the heck out. Honestly, as a new player, if you get into a fight, find yourself losing, and manage to slip away to fight another day, that should be considered a VICTORY.

Good luck.



Lose the shield extender and web. Mount a medium asb and tracking disruptor. If need be drop to an initiated harmonic scrambler to gain 2 cpu and a pseudo electric containment field to gain 10-15 cpu

Looked up...saw this F***ING clown dropping like a rock.  Woke up in Vylade wondering what just happened!!!
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-04-24 05:35:15 UTC
rifters are really terrible now i'd suggest using a slasher for an awesome AC frig.

Art of Explosions
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#13 - 2013-04-24 06:19:37 UTC
Maximus Hashur wrote:
Garresh wrote:
chatgris wrote:
Stuff


This isn't exactly correct. If you're sticking with T1 frigs you should be able to be "endgame ready" within a month. Maybe a bit more. But if you engage properly you can win fights. There were some guys who PvP'd on day old characters and kicked ass a while back. ANYWAYS, the rifter is kind of a bad choice TBH. It used to be god-tier but it's fallen on hard times for a newer player. The Slasher can be considered superior in most respects, and is much better for both a newer player and an older player. ALSO, join Faction Warefare. It gets you some helpful allies, and a better way to make isk while you're learning the ropes.

And now, since I'm such a nice guy, I'm going to go through your killboard and telling you how you can suck less.

Look back on these ships you lost:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19374239
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19372316
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19373887
http://eve.battleclinic.com/killboard/killmail.php?id=19378671

First and foremost, you're trying to be cap stable in PvP. Don't bother, being cap stable is overrated. Don't get me wrong, a nos can be a good idea, but any capacitor regen riggings or modules on a PvP ship, ESPECIALLY a frigate, are useless. The fight is over before they can help. Also I notice in one of your ships, you left a low slot empty. I don't know why you did that, but that wasn't a good idea. If you are having trouble fitting, drop the rocket launcher. The only ship slot that is allowed to be empty is a "utility high", which is essentially a high slot that doesn't have a bonused weapon hardpoint. The rifter has one, which can be filled with a rocket launcher, a Nosferatu to help you vs cap warefare, or a neut.

Continuing on the concept of cap warefare, the reason why being cap stable in PvP is overrated is because 5 capacitor regen boosting modules/rigs are basically countered by one energy neutralizer. Thus, the only "acceptable" capacitor boosting modules are ones that boost in quick bursts, allowing you to get cap in between their cap drain cycles. Those modules are Nosferatu, and Capacitor Boosters, which use Cap Booster charges to give quick injections of capacitor. Now on a rifter, a cap booster doesn't really work. I won't explain why cause that's a bit too complicated, but let's just say that none of the "acceptable" ways to fly a rifter have room for it. Nos, however, is acceptable.

Now since you're new, I'm going to suggest you just stay away from active tanked fittings in general. They can work, but of all the fittings, Active Repair styles are probably the most skill point intensive. You are not skill point intensive(yet), so stick with buffers...Unless using an Ancillary Shield Booster. Lol That wasn't sarcasm. ASB are OPish. One more thing, use faction ammo. You don't need to have a ton. Just put like 150 republic fleet [ammo] into your ship when you go into combat. It's a "minor" cost increase for a huge dps increase. All PvP ships use faction ammo, with good reason.

Now I was derpin around in EFT trying to throw something together that you can fit. Here's what my jackoffery has turned out:

[Slasher, Ornstein Pekv's Failship]
Damage Control II
Gyrostabilizer II

1MN Afterburner II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I
Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction

150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S
150mm Light AutoCannon II, EMP S
[empty high slot]

Small Projectile Burst Aerator I
Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Ancillary Current Router I

This isn't the best fitting out there, but if you downgrade to T1 meta modules as needed this thing shouldn't be amazingly hard to fit. I tried to leave some extra CPU and powergrid free on it. We'll see how well that works out, but meh. Also, here's a fitting on battleclinic I like:
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/62801-Slasher-The-Little-Ship-That-Could.html

And one last thing. I noticed you getting blobbed in a lot of your deaths. The greatest strength of the minmatar is we're ******* FAST. Don't feel bad about running away. I still run from fights left and right, and as a solo PvPer you should feel no shame in running if outgunned. Learn to tell when a fight is going **** up and get the heck out. Honestly, as a new player, if you get into a fight, find yourself losing, and manage to slip away to fight another day, that should be considered a VICTORY.

Good luck.



Lose the shield extender and web. Mount a medium asb and tracking disruptor. If need be drop to an initiated harmonic scrambler to gain 2 cpu and a pseudo electric containment field to gain 10-15 cpu


Armor slasher is superior.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#14 - 2013-04-24 08:25:22 UTC
Armor Slasher is good too, and FWIW Maximus Hasher's fitting is better, but I didn't want to bring ASB and tracking disruptors into the mix since his skills were low.

Still...OP, if you can fit em, try that build out.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#15 - 2013-04-24 09:54:01 UTC
Going solo in a Rifter without any experience means you should focus on weak targets only like for example Haulers, Mining Barges or Noob ships. Really.

For the beginning it is really useful to go for small scale PVP with some friends. They will help you to fit your ship and they will help you to get some kills and get some first positive PVP results. You can also talk with them after lost or won PVP to get a deeper understanding of the mechanics and why you have won or lost in a specific case. Only with this knowledge you then can try to go for solo roams, because for solo it is essential to know what ships with your skills and fittings and tactics are potential targets and which not.

If you don't mind going Faction Warefare then please feel free to apply at T.R.I.A.D. We are noob friendly and do small scale PVP for the Minmatar side in low-sec around Eszur.
Merely Runaway
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#16 - 2013-04-24 11:18:47 UTC
When your character is very young every SP counts.

There are a couple of things you can do to maximise your SP
1) Train for a specific fit.
2) Train thermodynamics. OVERHEAT EVERYTHING.
3) Develop soft skills by getting on comms, joining fleets and chatting with players. There can be no better way of developing system awareness than acting as tackle/scout for a decent fleet. I learnt under Loryanna and Annah Kitheran in Iron Oxide.

You need to fit your ship well.
1) Join a good corp and get their advice. I joined the Flowing Penguins and have been bringing their averages down ever since ;)
2) Find a pilot you respect and check out their losses. Use one of their fits (downgrade modules if you have to).
3) Forum fittings (not as useful as you'd think thanks to muppets thinking they're good when they're not but can still be helpful)
4) T2 guns + faction ammo ALWAYS.

Choose your adversary carefully.
1) Check their age to get an idea of SP. Don't engage anyone older than yourself...
2) Check their sec status to get an idea of experience and readiness to engage.
3) Check to make sure they're alone and not working with others (or a booster alt)
4) Check what they're flying to get an idea of whether you can take them or not and how they will engage you. eg. brawler or kiter?

I got my first solo kill (+ plex rat) after 3 months
http://zkillboard.com/detail/25087348/

...and my first solo solo kill on an accel gate after 5months
http://zkillboard.com/detail/25881305/

If I had known what I know now I would have got my first kill much sooner.
It's all about learning though...


TRIAD are pretty good and friendly too. Join them or consider Oxide Nation if you're thinking of Minmatar FW.
George Boothe
Blootered Bastards
#17 - 2013-04-24 12:28:49 UTC
Yay.... I wrote a long and eloquent response and the ******* forum ate it...

Well here is a short version.
Thermodynamics is your friend! Overheating gives you ca. a 15%-35% performance boost depending on the module. This equates to a performance boost worth several month of SP. Therefore if you lack skills but overheat everything and fight someone with month worth of skillpoints more than you who does not overheat, you may still beat them.

Secondly and more important, KNOW YOUR ENEMY!
A 30mil kiting slicer is no match for a t1 fit 2mil slasher if the slasher has him scrammed and webbed and orbits at 500m.
To get an overview of the pvp performance of most ships in eve, i strongly recommend Know your enemy the blog by Azual Skol. Keep in mind the currently ongoing rebalancing of the ships. But for now the attack and combat frig parts is what you want to learn by heart. Here you will learn what each ship is capable of doing and how they are generally fitted.


Thirdly:
Use your "Noob Bonus". A lot of people will see that you are low SP and engage you thinking you are an easy kill, even if you fly the hardcounter to their ship. I got a couple of kiting slicer kills in my first 6 or 7 days of PvPing that came to close to my web and scram. After contacting them afterwards, they said they thought they need not be very careful because of my low SP.

Hell, you can beat a vagabond in a t1 fit slasher if you are lucky, get a scram and web on him, kill his drones and then whittle him down if he has no neut on him. (Granted for that one i had a friend who was also in a t1 slasher, added together we had about 1.5mil skillpoints at the time)

I hope I could help.
Now go out there and blow **** up.
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#18 - 2013-04-24 13:33:44 UTC
Welcome to 'everyone vs. everyone'.

Most of the importing things allready were mentioned.
Though i miss a single thing: In duells (well: in general) most people don´t fight 'fair'. Saying this means they might have a booster (for a FAT boost to almost everything - especially hp) around.

Take a look at faction warfare. Some of the corps will help you getting started and you will earn isk while actually pvp'ing.

My true stories
Diesel47
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-04-24 14:54:09 UTC
Jenahl wrote:
Brave Newbies Inc.

I hear were recruiting.Smile


This only teaches you how to blob.


And I don't really know why you'd need to learn that, pretty simple minded.
Cearain
Plus 10 NV
#20 - 2013-04-24 15:25:27 UTC
chatgris wrote:
You can't really compete in solo pvp in a frigate until you've got a good 8 months of focused training under your belt in areas like capacitor, navigation, turret/missile, hull/shield support skills, overheating etc. Yes, you can catch dumb ratters in a BC and solo them, but when you are fighting someone who knows what they are doing 1v1 in a frigate with more SP, you are pretty much SOL.

It doesn't help that the rifter is one of the weaker frigates right now.

(My timing might be off, I did those calculations way back when I think some learning skills were involved, before they dropped the overheating requirements etc).

Once you have those skills, you've got a fighting chance, but in a straight up mirror match you'll generally lose to higher SP pilots..



I think 8 months is way too long. But you should have t2 guns/launchers and preferably your racial frigate skill at 5. You also must have thermo to be competitive. But its fine at level 3. Skills that effect speed and agility should be at least 4 preferably 5. Other gunnery skills, hull, shield, cap etc at 3-4. You can start pvping as you get them to 5. Obviously train the ones that effect what you are flying now the most.

IMO the most important tool for solo pvp is the eft dps graphs based on range and transversal etc. Focus on that and the range control and transversal of your ship.

Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
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