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Summer expansion SP

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De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#21 - 2013-04-23 15:57:10 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Even better. I trained BC to level V on an alt even though I am never going to use BC with that character. I have no cruiser skills and am Per and Will remapped so will get lots of lovely free unallocated SP in June on that character. :)


I thought about this, but in what way does this benefit you over just training skills you would have used in the first place, unless it's just to save a remap. You'll only get back the number of skill points you could have trained in that amount of time anyway.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Virginia Virdana
RSM Inc
#22 - 2013-04-23 15:57:21 UTC
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged


The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning
They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.   You appear to have come armed with a spoon.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-04-23 15:57:21 UTC
admiral root wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Wow... I remember asking about having the Mining Barge skill refunded, and that caused many forum flames. But at least that made sense.


It made exactly no sense, as mining barges are still in the game and the skill still affects them. This thread makes just as little sense as we knew about the destroyer / battlecruiser changes last summer and had plenty of time to take appropriate action.


And the mining barge skills are universally accepted as the most useful skill in the game too right?... Don't be a muppet.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#24 - 2013-04-23 15:58:03 UTC
Look on the bright side, as a newer player you have been taught how valuable it is to pay attention and plan ahead.

These lessons will serve you far better than some extra skill points.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Dave Stark
#25 - 2013-04-23 15:59:00 UTC
Virginia Virdana wrote:
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged


The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning


actions having consequences. who'd have thought!
Virginia Virdana
RSM Inc
#26 - 2013-04-23 15:59:15 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
admiral root wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Wow... I remember asking about having the Mining Barge skill refunded, and that caused many forum flames. But at least that made sense.


It made exactly no sense, as mining barges are still in the game and the skill still affects them. This thread makes just as little sense as we knew about the destroyer / battlecruiser changes last summer and had plenty of time to take appropriate action.


And the mining barge skills are universally accepted as the most useful skill in the game too right?... Don't be a muppet.


Honestly - this has been done to death. Lets focus on the new semi-irrational skill point debate at hand...
They say never come to a gunfight armed with a knife.   You appear to have come armed with a spoon.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-04-23 15:59:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Rebecha Pucontis
De'Veldrin wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Even better. I trained BC to level V on an alt even though I am never going to use BC with that character. I have no cruiser skills and am Per and Will remapped so will get lots of lovely free unallocated SP in June on that character. :)


I thought about this, but in what way does this benefit you over just training skills you would have used in the first place, unless it's just to save a remap. You'll only get back the number of skill points you could have trained in that amount of time anyway.


It is useful as certain skill I wanted to train have pre reqs which are not using the same attributes as the primary skill. So yes basically it saves a remap or two and basically and makes it much easier to plan on evemon. For a relatively new alt it is really nice to have almost 2 mil unallocated points along with the 3 remaps, and I was already remapped to Per and Will so thought I would make the most of it.
Royal Executioner Shazih
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-04-23 16:00:50 UTC
Virginia Virdana wrote:
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged


The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning


Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time?
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#29 - 2013-04-23 16:01:33 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Even better. I trained BC to level V on an alt even though I am never going to use BC with that character. I have no cruiser skills and am Per and Will remapped so will get lots of lovely free unallocated SP in June on that character. :)


I thought about this, but in what way does this benefit you over just training skills you would have used in the first place, unless it's just to save a remap. You'll only get back the number of skill points you could have trained in that amount of time anyway.


It is useful as certain skill I wanted to train have pre reqs which are not using the same attributes as the pre req skills. So yes basically it saves a remap or two and basically and makes it much easier to plan on evemon. For a relatively new alt it is really nice to have almost 2 mil unallocated points along with the 3 remaps, and I was already remapped to Per and Will so thought I would make the most of it.


Makes sense. Good on you for being emergent. LOL.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
admiral root
Red Galaxy
#30 - 2013-04-23 16:02:40 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
And the mining barge skills are universally accepted as the most useful skill in the game too right?...


What does that matter? They still do what they were intended to do so reimbursement of the skill points makes no sense at all. Furthermore, if you're one of the people who are mad over the orca changes, you still get value from the barge skill up until the expansion.

Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Don't be a muppet.


Both Kermit and Yoda would grasp the silliness of your desire to have mining barge skill points reimbursed. I'm fine being grouped with such intelligent company. Wakka wakka.

No, your rights end in optimal+2*falloff
Pragadas
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#31 - 2013-04-23 16:04:38 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:


So let me get this right -

You want a reward for failing to plan ahead for a change that has been announced for at least 6 - 9 months.

How about No? Does No work for you?


I agree with you that I could have planned ahead and trained these but as a new player, training all the races destroyers and BCs up is quite an investment that takes me quite far from stuff I'll actually use in the near future.

That said, I'm not self entitled enough to think I should get a load of free SP for no reason although it does suck than when cross training is the right thing to do it's going to be that little bit harder.

Gonna try and get caldari in before the change though, I hear the Naga is good even if I won't be able to use the hybrids for a while.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#32 - 2013-04-23 16:06:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
That's why I propose recompensation.
“Recompensation” suggest that something was lost. So the question is: for what? What have you lost?

No, having to train skills under new skill tree is not a loss — it's just the game. In fact, under this new tree, you'll have a far easier time training for things than the older characters had. That is your compensation right there: your cross-training becomes a little more time-consuming; specialisation becomes immensely faster.

At best, the older characters should be compensated for having their clones become more expensive without actually gaining anything for it…
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#33 - 2013-04-23 16:06:46 UTC
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Virginia Virdana wrote:
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged


The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning


Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time?


CCP are increasing the skill point requirements to fly all pirate faction ship. If every new player were given free SP to compensate them which they could easily spend on skilling up all the pirate faction ships, then what would be the point of CCP implementing the change in the first place. Your logic is pretty bad.

Also look on the bright side, you can fly the orca in 14 days now, where as older players had to spend months training up crappy mining barge skills.
Dave Stark
#34 - 2013-04-23 16:06:49 UTC
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Virginia Virdana wrote:
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged


The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning


Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time?


two months old, over a month until the changes.
more than enough time to train those skills.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-04-23 16:08:34 UTC
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Virginia Virdana wrote:
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged


The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning


Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time?



Plan what on time? If you don't train it and haven't been using it, it doesn't apply to you. It's not "free" sp, it's "reimbursement".

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Royal Executioner Shazih
Doomheim
#36 - 2013-04-23 16:08:57 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
That's why I propose recompensation.
“Recompensation” suggest that something was lost. So the question is: for what? What have you lost?

No, having to train skills under new skill tree is not a loss — it's just the game. In fact, under this new tree, you'll have a far easier time training for things than the older characters had.

At best, the older characters should be compensated for having their clones become more expensive without actually gaining anything for it…


Exactly. That's what I'm pointing at. This change itself hits those who have Dessy V and BC V quite a bit but even harder those who don't.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-04-23 16:08:59 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:


So let me get this right -

You want a reward for failing to plan ahead for a change that has been announced for at least 6 - 9 months.

How about No? Does No work for you?


I am a firm believer that current skill system in EVE is the second-largest singular detrimental factor to the game's player base growth. Largest factor being the current player base. But the OP brings up an interesting point.

OK, those of us who are playing now, and have been for a while, all planned ahead and trained Destroyers and BCs to V. I know I did. But what about new players? You know, those "the few, the proud, the nooby"? What about them? Imagine one of those guys joining the game and finding out that within weeks (meaning there's no way in holy hell he can do it fast enough) he will miss out on additional 6 million SP worth of training time, which translates into what, 3.7 months worth of training at 2200 SP/hr? How do you think this will make the new player feel? Smart move?

Personally I'd rather see the whole SP and training system scrubbed or at least totally overhauled. Then again, I'm a realist, and I know it will never happen as it is pretty much the only thing still holding this game together. Well, that and bird droppings.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#38 - 2013-04-23 16:09:38 UTC
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Virginia Virdana wrote:
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
But y I am punished for that? Y I have to spend 4x times more than they? Because I am younger? Newer players already heavily disadvantaged


The only thing you are being "punished" for is your lack of forward planning


Im two months old. How was I supposed to plan it on time?

If you are only two months old you are better off concentrating on specializing at this point anyway. Worry about broadening your options later when you have the core skills to back it up and the skill with your chosen line/ships to be highly effective when needed.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Dave Stark
#39 - 2013-04-23 16:10:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Dave Stark
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
That's why I propose recompensation.
“Recompensation” suggest that something was lost. So the question is: for what? What have you lost?

No, having to train skills under new skill tree is not a loss — it's just the game. In fact, under this new tree, you'll have a far easier time training for things than the older characters had.

At best, the older characters should be compensated for having their clones become more expensive without actually gaining anything for it…


Exactly. That's what I'm pointing at. This change itself hits those who have Dessy V and BC V quite a bit but even harder those who don't.


so not having a more expensive clone is now harder than having an expensive one?

rvb, now pvping in high sec to be found under the bridge frequented by goats.
Meytal
Doomheim
#40 - 2013-04-23 16:11:30 UTC
Pragadas wrote:
I agree with you that I could have planned ahead and trained these but as a new player, training all the races destroyers and BCs up is quite an investment that takes me quite far from stuff I'll actually use in the near future.

That said, I'm not self entitled enough to think I should get a load of free SP for no reason although it does suck than when cross training is the right thing to do it's going to be that little bit harder.

Gonna try and get caldari in before the change though, I hear the Naga is good even if I won't be able to use the hybrids for a while.

The only difficult train that you might not complete if you start right now is Battlecruisers 5. The Frigate skills need to go to 4, so that meets the level 3 requirement for Destroyers. The cruiser skills to 3 takes less than a day each. Battlecruisers 4 only takes a few days. Destroyers 5 takes maybe a week or so, depending on your current mapping.

You can easily get in a LOT of training right now. Maybe you won't get Battlecruisers to 5, or maybe you will. If you do nothing, you can be assured that you will get exactly nothing.