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Summer expansion SP

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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#241 - 2013-04-24 03:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Asmodai Xodai wrote:
The 'failure to plan ahead' counter-argument to OP isn't very good. It can easily be defeated by a player who comes to the game after the change, therefore COULDN'T HAVE failed to plan ahead.
Weeeell… it works against the OP because he could have (and still can) plan ahead. The new player is a slightly different argument and is much the same situation as any newcomer after a patch when new skills were introduced: they'll have to train for longer to be able to do the same as the older players. As the game grows older, new players will have more and more skills to choose from; they get to start playing the game as-is, same as everyone else when they started.

The only special feature of this particular skill change is that the split between “old” and “new” doesn't happen on patch day, but up to a month before, which is when it starts to become too late to get that extra-payout BC V/Dessie V combo.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#242 - 2013-04-24 04:04:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathalie LaPorte
Tippia wrote:

Now, since you prefer your things formal (for no particularly good reason) how about this one:
P₁: If things are bad, they can be improved.
P₂: The skill tree is getting improved, according to Tippia.
C: The skill tree was bad, according to Tippia ← non sequitur.

…and I'm being generous here by providing an assumed premise that could possibly connect the otherwise disconnected statements and which is intuitive enough that we can suspect that the OP actually might use it. In reality, P₁ is unstated, so we don't even have a complete syllogism. Either way, the conclusion does not follow form the premise(s).

So yes, /discussion indeed — his conditional was a non-sequitur, and his follow-up questions were nonsensical hypotheticals because they hinged on this fallacious assumption. There's really no two ways about it.


I'm sorry, none of that follows from my premises. There's nothing about either Jovians or game shows. Your conclusion is thus a non sequitur.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#243 - 2013-04-24 04:07:03 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
I'm sorry, none of that follows from my premises.
Good thing that I wasn't talking about them, then. No need to be sorry. Just try harder to grasp the context next time.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#244 - 2013-04-24 04:11:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathalie LaPorte
Tippia wrote:
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
I'm sorry, none of that follows from my premises.
Good thing that I wasn't talking about them, then. No need to be sorry. Just try harder to grasp the context next time.


Grasping at context is for people that don't know how to set the terms of the debate by insisting that everything relate to their premises, even if they're entering into a discussion late, or even discussing with the thread starter. It's all about seizing the territory, dropping SBU's, etc.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#245 - 2013-04-24 04:13:54 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm not willing to try harder to grasp your non sequiturs.
Good thing that it wasn't a non sequitur you needed to grasp, then, but a context.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#246 - 2013-04-24 04:16:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathalie LaPorte
Tippia wrote:
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm not willing to try harder to grasp your non sequiturs.
Good thing that it wasn't a non sequitur you needed to grasp, then, but a context.


I already addressed this issue.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#247 - 2013-04-24 04:19:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
I'm sorry, but that doesn't follow from my premises either.
Good thing that I wasn't talking about them, then. No need to be sorry. Just try harder to grasp the context next time.

Also, from your inability to actually present any kind of argument, I'm hereby concluding that you've realised not just that I was right all along, but also why, and you're feeling a bit silly about having missed something that obvious in spite of all your talk about logic.

It's ok. At least now you know a bit more about non sequiturs and the different guises they may take.
Ryuu Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#248 - 2013-04-24 04:31:37 UTC
...ok this premises and context thing is just getting a little silly now don't you both think??

_**Noob **_isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.

  • Sun Tzu
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#249 - 2013-04-24 04:34:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nathalie LaPorte
Tippia wrote:

Also, from your inability to actually present any kind of argument, I'm hereby concluding that you've realised not just that I was right all along, but also why, and you're feeling a bit silly about having missed something that obvious in spite of all your talk about logic..


Nice combination, the "claim the argument you just responded to 20 times isn't actually a real argument at all" plus the "hereby conclude that I win" plus the "impute negative emotions to the other party". Impressive.

That is a serious 3fer of illogical rhetorical device. However, it still doesn't fol...I forget what comes next.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#250 - 2013-04-24 04:38:30 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Hi everyone.
Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point.
Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine.
But players who dont do that will get nothing.

I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate.
If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.

Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.

That's why I propose recompensation.


So let me get this right -

You want a reward for failing to plan ahead for a change that has been announced for at least 6 - 9 months.

How about No? Does No work for you?


I would like your post but you're sitting at 1337 likes, and it seemed fitting.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#251 - 2013-04-24 04:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Nice combination, the "claim the argument you just responded to 20 times isn't actually a real argument at all" plus the "hereby conclude that I win" plus the "impute negative emotions to the other party". Impressive.
…and, until evidence comes along to falsify or cast any kind of doubt on it, remains the only sane conclusion.

Oh, and you've only posted 3 times since the statement was made — none of them actually addressing the statement — so claiming that the “the argument you responded to 20 time” isn't an argument (by virtue of not existing at all) is quite easy.

Quote:
However, it still doesn't follow from my premises.
…which it doesn't have to, since they aren't germane to the topic at hand.

Now, would you like to take a stab at proving me wrong about… well… anything? Or at least offer some argument towards that effect? Perhaps you would like to read up on what a “non sequitur” is, rather than rely on a very limited (and ultimately insufficient) dictionary definition?
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#252 - 2013-04-24 04:53:44 UTC
Tippia wrote:

Now, would you like to take a stab at proving me wrong about… well… anything? Or at least offer some argument towards that effect? Perhaps you would like to read up on what a “non sequitur” is, rather than rely on a very limited (and ultimately insufficient) dictionary definition?


I'm sorry, but emulating you and listening to you argue against your own arguments is much superior.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#253 - 2013-04-24 04:59:47 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
I'm sorry, but emulating you and listening to you argue against your own arguments is much superior.
Maybe you should try doing that then. It got you nowhere the first time since you failed to pick up on the actual answer and instead went off on an irrelevant tangent, but maybe second time's the charm.

Meanwhile, would you like to take a stab at proving me wrong about… well… anything? Or at least offer some argument towards that effect? Perhaps you would like to read up on what a “non sequitur” is, rather than rely on a very limited (and ultimately insufficient) dictionary definition? Maybe you can demonstrate how P₁ and P₂ actually leads to C? Or even better, how P₂ leads to C without P₁ — that would be interesting…

…or you can keep evading, further highlighting your inability to actually present a coherent argument.
Domina Trix
McKNOBBLER DRINKING CLAN
#254 - 2013-04-24 05:14:13 UTC
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Hi everyone.
Probably my post will bring a lot of criticism but I want to make a point.
Due to ship skills revamp people who train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V are going to get around 6mil SP. That is fine.
But players who dont do that will get nothing.

I propose that players who decided not to train the mentioned skill get partial recompensation (say 30% of the max possible skills). For example, if someone gets zero additional SP from summer expansion he qualifies for 6x0.3 = 2m free SP to allocate.
If the player gets 2m SP from summer expansion he qualifies for (6-2)x0.3 = 1,3m free SP to allocate etc.

Some of u will object because we all knew that in advance and could train Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V. BUT while for older players 20-30 days of training is nothing newer players cant afford to spend so much time on 1-2 skills. It gives unfair advantage to older players and players who already have Destroyers V and Battlecriusers V over newer player.

That's why I propose recompensation.


A players total SP is irrelevant to anything in the game apart from maybe e-peen. It is where the player has spent the SP that makes the difference.

An older player has no advantage having battlecruisers V over a newer player, once the change happens and they get all the racial battlecruisers at 5 do you think they are going to fly them all at once? no, they are going to work out which one suits their playstyle and go with that one just the same as a sensible new player is going to.

What you are asking for is basically 1.3 mill free sp to spend where you like for anyone who hasn't trained a particular skill. How unfair is that?

Two of the defining characteristics of a carebear are wanting other players to play the way the carebear wants and whining on the forums for the game to change when they don't. Yet I see more threads on these forums from gankers than I do miners whining about wanting the game changed to suit them.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#255 - 2013-04-24 05:40:36 UTC
Tippia wrote:

…or you can keep evading, further highlighting your inability to actually present a coherent argument.


...or you can keep insulting me, with zingless ad hominems that make a mockery of any facade of coherent logic, but lack any kind of punch to be effective as an insult.

Tippia wrote:
Maybe you can demonstrate how P₁ and P₂ actually leads to C?.


Very simple:

P₁: Current skill system is bad.
P₂: Current skill system is better than before.
C: Old skill system was bad.

Could not be more obvious. I don't agree with either premise, or the conclusion, but that's not at issue here. P₁ + P₂ => C, so it's not a non sequitur.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#256 - 2013-04-24 05:42:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Mara Pahrdi
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
All posts like 'deal with it' are not valid here. I want official CCP response.

Didn't think this thread could improve any further. Definitely got that wrong.

Lol

Remove standings and insurance.
Abraham Nalelmir
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#257 - 2013-04-24 05:44:10 UTC
1- I am a new player, I dropped all my Guardian plans, T2 large guns plans, even I delayed hull upgrades 5 just to train BC to 5
2- They "decided" they are responsible for their decision
3- Giving them 2 million SP FREE to allocate anywhere is not fair for me, I who spent 1.5 months maxing out BC & Destroyers with all racial frigates/cruisers skills

I have joined after the titan nerf and after caps were kicked out of high sec, am I entitled to have a titan and a cap in my starting home system?

In Go.. ECM I trust
Royal Executioner Shazih
Doomheim
#258 - 2013-04-24 05:51:12 UTC
Abraham Nalelmir wrote:
1- I am a new player, I dropped all my Guardian plans, T2 large guns plans, even I delayed hull upgrades 5 just to train BC to 5
2- They "decided" they are responsible for their decision
3- Giving them 2 million SP FREE to allocate anywhere is not fair for me, I who spent 1.5 months maxing out BC & Destroyers with all racial frigates/cruisers skills

I have joined after the titan nerf and after caps were kicked out of high sec, am I entitled to have a titan and a cap in my starting home system?


U still get 6mil SP, which is way better than 2.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#259 - 2013-04-24 05:55:42 UTC
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Abraham Nalelmir wrote:
1- I am a new player, I dropped all my Guardian plans, T2 large guns plans, even I delayed hull upgrades 5 just to train BC to 5
2- They "decided" they are responsible for their decision
3- Giving them 2 million SP FREE to allocate anywhere is not fair for me, I who spent 1.5 months maxing out BC & Destroyers with all racial frigates/cruisers skills

I have joined after the titan nerf and after caps were kicked out of high sec, am I entitled to have a titan and a cap in my starting home system?


U still get 6mil SP, which is way better than 2.


6 mil SP spent somewhere you now regret is way worse than 2m unallocated SP. If you're willing to consider someone who regrets not training BC, why won't you consider someone who regrets the opposite?
Royal Executioner Shazih
Doomheim
#260 - 2013-04-24 06:01:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Royal Executioner Shazih
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Royal Executioner Shazih wrote:
Let's take League of legends. Players ask for sale there all the time and no1 writes like' hey I paid for that char full price, so u have too'.
Even when I bought a char for full price and it was put on sale 2 weeks later I never flamed about it, because I've already been enjoying it for 2 weeks.

But EVE players played EVE too much and so here all I get is: 'EVE is harsh. Deal with it. etc.'
U guys forgot that EVE just a game.

Yes, lets.

There are no "skill point" sales in league. There are "Aurum" sales. Kind of like EvE has PLEX bundle sales.

This relates to character progression how? Oh right, you can buy boosts in league that increase leveling speed for noobs, kind of like buying PLEX to fund implants in EvE.

Also, the reason people tell you to deal with it when you buy a character that then goes on sale, is the sales are announced well in advance. Sound familiar?

They reduce in-game prices of old characters over time. Kind of like EvE is about to reduce training requirements on specialized ships. Both have the same goal - to help a new player catch up to a competitive level.

You're just mad that I have every single champion in the League. That **** took effort. Err, made a skill plan that gave me what I wanted out of the skill changes.

(Disclaimer: I don't actually have every single champion in league - any more, since I started playing EvE I'm about 10 short)


League of legends only and always helps newer players by slowly cutting advantages of older players.
LoL would be the same as EVE if everyone who starts playing that game is forced to purchase characters in their release order. Do u think anyone would play it?
Supporting newer players is the only viable option as older players get bored by the game/change lifestyle etc. CCP on the other hand does the opposite.
EVE growing year by year. But who are they? New players? Returnig? Alts?
LoL has over 30 mil accounts. Can u remind me how much ever-growing EVE has?