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Summer expansion SP

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Myriad Blaze
Common Sense Ltd
Nulli Secunda
#181 - 2013-04-23 22:13:04 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:

On June 4, you will have it - despite having never trained it. As a result, you will be able to fly 3 Amarr battlecruiser-class ships.

You also don't have Caldari Battlecruiser V right now. You don't have it, you can't train for it.

On June 4, you will have it - despite having never trained it. As a result, you will be able to fly 3 Caldari battlecruiser-class ships.

OP does not have Amarr Battlecruiser V trained right now. She doesn't have it, she can't possibly train it.

On June 4 . . . still won't have it. Doesn't get the gift that you are getting - a brand new skill - and it is a gift, as you did not train all four racial battlecruisers up to V. that would take months that you did_not_spend training.

However, you get the equivilant of three free racial skills - while OP is faced with months of additional training (that you did not have to do) in order to match your variety of battlecruisers.

Hence, the need for free SPs to allocate at will.

Errr... no?

I have trained Destroyer and Battlecruiser to V and I also trained racial cruisers to 4 (only 3 is needed) so I can fly all racial battlecruisers at the moment. And after the patch I can still fly all racial battlecruisers at the exact same skill level - so I get nothing really. Actually you could argue that I am punished, because I now need to invest in a more expensive clone.

Let me rephrase that to be very clear: after the patch I can do exactly the SAME than before the patch. I get NOTHING what I didn't have before. The additional SP are needed so I can still fly what I can fly now.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#182 - 2013-04-23 22:13:16 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
I'm a hypocritical troll and everybody else should feel bad because of it

You should feel bad for being both a hypocrite, and a troll.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#183 - 2013-04-23 22:13:50 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
The OP stepped in with eyes wide-open, and uncorked a horrible idea, then defended it horribly.
Along the way, the OP found a fellow traveller, who also doesn't seem particularly good.


I'm still standing. Twisted
Come back again, BSMD, when you've got a better grasp of what the June 4 implementation actually means.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#184 - 2013-04-23 22:15:44 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:

Wish some of the more prevalent forum trolls would find better hobbies though


Thats kind of rich coming from someone who just freely admitted to trolling and even compared it to a days work. You are very confused indeed.

Somehow I don't think you were trolling though and just used it as an easy get out when you realised how bad your arguments were. At least you realised it in the end so have to give you some credit for listening to the voices of reason on this forum.
Georgina Parmala
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#185 - 2013-04-23 22:21:00 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
You also don't have Caldari Battlecruiser V right now. You don't have it, you can't train for it.

On June 4, you will have it - despite having never trained it. As a result, you will be able to fly 3 Caldari battlecruiser-class ships.


Are you trolling or really this stupid? Either this is a clever troll, or you really are stupid.

I couldn't be bothered to investigate, but just a hunch

Suddenly OP stopped posting and there is a new NPC alt spam posting in the thread, equally upset and just as confused as the OP.

Coincidence? Or Alt?

Science and Trade Institute [STI] is an NPC entity and as such my views do not represent those of the entity or any of its members

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=276984&p=38
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#186 - 2013-04-23 22:26:14 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
Technically her argument isn't a non sequitur, but more of a self-defeating oxymoron.
No, it's a non sequitur. He's suggesting that I should have quit playing under the old system just because the new one is better.


What? To manipulate what he/she said to fit the non sequitur categorization, you're twisting his/her words to accuse you of being able to tell the future but acting as if you couldn't? Crazy.


Quote:
He's assuming that just because there is an improvement, the old one was horrible, which does not follow.


With the added assumption which he is clearly making that the current one is horrible, that actually does follow. Sorry, you're wrong.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#187 - 2013-04-23 22:26:55 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Georgina Parmala wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
You also don't have Caldari Battlecruiser V right now. You don't have it, you can't train for it.

On June 4, you will have it - despite having never trained it. As a result, you will be able to fly 3 Caldari battlecruiser-class ships.


Are you trolling or really this stupid? Either this is a clever troll, or you really are stupid.

I couldn't be bothered to investigate, but just a hunch

Suddenly OP stopped posting and there is a new NPC alt spam posting in the thread, equally upset and just as confused as the OP.

Coincidence? Or Alt?

Something inconvenient might have happened.

edit:
Oh, and the OP (plus Fellow Traveler) seem inordinately fixated on SP - As if SP really meant anything. I suspect that's their (his?) main probnlem - that he/they don't get that SP are irrelevent, save as a marker of how close you are towards getting the next skill level. Skill levels themselves are only somewhat relevent, in as much as they determine what you fly, and how well.

I'd guess that the OP keeps score by SP, despite it being rather irrelevent.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#188 - 2013-04-23 22:27:42 UTC
silens vesica wrote:
Something inconvenient might have happened.


The truth can be like that sometimes.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Baggo Hammers
#189 - 2013-04-23 22:28:45 UTC
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog wrote:
Alright, work day is done, I want to thank all of you for playing. Most of you are . . . pretty bad.

I think OP's idea is terrible, but part of the problem was that it was presented pretty poorly. I did my part to raise OPs argument in a "better" way (there's really no good way to put "gimmegimmeGIMME!" but I tried). Long story short - handing out SPs is a terrible idea, but playing devil's advocate is fun.

Doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of you ARE bad, and should FEEL bad for BEING bad. OP didn't deserve the poorly reasoned, illogically, crappily-analogized garbage that was posted. There are very good reasons not to just start handing out SP - few of you even managed to get that far. And from what I can see, no one took the very simple step of, at a minimum, at least pretending to see where OP was coming from (it is a legitimate gripe, just one without a good solution).

And I guess, FWIW, I wouldn't cry if CCP did provide everyone with BC VI/Dessie IV as a sort of "hey, there you go, lets all move forward together" (I did already finish my training before the new year, back when I thought the change was going live pre-Retribution). But likewise, I have no qualms at all with things staying exactly like CCP said they would for MONTHS.

And in fact, it's gotten better. No more of that "rationale integer" garbage - partial training is getting spread out too. All in all, CCP is handling this pretty well.

Wish some of the more prevalent forum trolls would find better hobbies though. Especially with the god-awful analogies and deliberately failing to address basic arguments. Oh well - keep shining on, you crazy diamonds!



You are one amazing cat! Too bad all us Philistines can't grasp your deep thoughts. Clerks rule!

If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#190 - 2013-04-23 22:29:29 UTC
These changes have been known about and announced for something like 6-8 months.
Even if you started a char on the day it was first talked about you could EASILY have BC and Dessie 5 by now.

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#191 - 2013-04-23 22:33:28 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
These changes have been known about and announced for something like 6-8 months.
Even if you started a char on the day it was first talked about you could EASILY have BC and Dessie 5 by now.


The funny thing is, even if you started a character right now you could max them all out in time for the expansion with the right remap. But the OP would rather whinge on here instead.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#192 - 2013-04-23 22:34:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
What?
Me: “you're already getting a much more optimise skill tree, so you have nothing to complain about”
Him: “If the skill tree was so bad, then y did u play it then at that time? U should have left then.”
Me: “Non sequitur.”

In other words, “we're getting a nice improvement” does not mean “it was bad before”.
Quote:
To manipulate what he/she said to fit the non sequitur categorization, you're twisting his/her words to accuse you of being able to tell the future but acting as if you couldn't?
Eh, no. I'm converting his “you should have left” into an analogy about bacon and eggs to demonstrate that, no, just because there is improvement doesn't mean that it was bad before; that you can improve from “good” to “better”.

Quote:
With the added assumption which he is clearly making that the current one is horrible, that actually does follow.
…except that it's about what I thought, and no mention was made about it being bad — it was just something he dreamt up as a non sequitur of my saing that it's getting improved.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#193 - 2013-04-23 22:34:52 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
These changes have been known about and announced for something like 6-8 months.
Even if you started a char on the day it was first talked about you could EASILY have BC and Dessie 5 by now.

The funny thing is, even if you started a character right now you could max them all out in time for the expansion with the right remap. But the OP would rather whinge on here instead.

well sure, but that's some pretty epic power leveling :P

There is no Bob.

Stuck In Here With Me:  http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/

Down the Pipe:  http://feeds.feedburner.com/CloakyScout
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#194 - 2013-04-23 22:37:35 UTC
Jack Miton wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
These changes have been known about and announced for something like 6-8 months.
Even if you started a char on the day it was first talked about you could EASILY have BC and Dessie 5 by now.

The funny thing is, even if you started a character right now you could max them all out in time for the expansion with the right remap. But the OP would rather whinge on here instead.

well sure, but that's some pretty epic power leveling :P


Getting Desi to 5 and BC to 4 would still net 4 level 5 desi skills and 4 level 4 BC skills, so even that is not training time wasted.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#195 - 2013-04-23 22:40:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Jack Miton wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Jack Miton wrote:
These changes have been known about and announced for something like 6-8 months.
Even if you started a char on the day it was first talked about you could EASILY have BC and Dessie 5 by now.

The funny thing is, even if you started a character right now you could max them all out in time for the expansion with the right remap. But the OP would rather whinge on here instead.

well sure, but that's some pretty epic power leveling sitting-around :P
Fixed. P

We're talking about (2+6) ranks × 256k SP = 2M SP, which can be brushed off in 33 days at 2520 SP/h.
At the time of writing, Odyssey is 41 days away… that's an entire week of larking about (or getting the cruiser skills up to III).
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#196 - 2013-04-23 22:46:27 UTC
Tippia wrote:

…except that it's about what I thought, and no mention was made about it being bad


...except that he didn't use the word "thought", but he did use the word "bad", in the 4 sentence excerpt under discussion.

"If the skill tree was so bad, then y did u play it then at that time? U should have left then. But u stayed. Why do u use it as a point now then?"
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#197 - 2013-04-23 22:50:33 UTC
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
...except that he didn't use the word "thought", but he did use the word "bad", in the 4 sentence excerpt under discussion.
…and it's still my view of the skill tree that was in question — i.e. what I thought about it.

Not that it matters, the non-sequitur is the same: “improvement” does not mean that it was bad before.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#198 - 2013-04-23 22:57:08 UTC  |  Edited by: silens vesica
Tippia wrote:
Nathalie LaPorte wrote:
...except that he didn't use the word "thought", but he did use the word "bad", in the 4 sentence excerpt under discussion.
…and it's still my view of the skill tree that was in question — i.e. what I thought about it.

Not that it matters, the non-sequitur is the same: “improvement” does not mean that it was bad before.

"New and Improved" only means that the previous version was "Old and Inferior" in comparison to the updated version - This is not an absolute scale, but a relative one.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
Jenahl
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#199 - 2013-04-23 22:57:34 UTC
I dont know what the big deal is. Everything was outlined in a Dev Blog in regards to this change. The Dev even let us know how to get all them free skillpoints! Roll I guess no matter how much advance warning you give people, there are always those who live under a rock.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#200 - 2013-04-23 23:01:47 UTC
Jenahl wrote:
I dont know what the big deal is. Everything was outlined in a Dev Blog in regards to this change. The Dev even let us know how to get all them free skillpoints! Roll I guess no matter how much advance warning you give people, there are always those who live under a rock.


You can put it on all the splashscreens on the login page, you can make all the Devblogs you want, you can even have it written in the nebulas themselves, the fact is there will ALWAYS be at least 1 who will complain that they werent given enough notice..or any notice at all for that matter. It is the nature of things.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?