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Pretty disappointed in Tech 2 Heavy Missile launchers ;(
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BORTRON BEEFBURGER
Boner Kingdom
#1 - 2013-04-22 23:39:19 UTC
I am new to this game so training for tech 2 Heavies seemed like an eternity.
Being hyped up thinking if it takes this long its going to be an amazing difference is what lead me to being bummed out.
I went from having 47 km range with tech 1 to 35 km using Tech 2.
You would figure that a higher tech version would have range and damage increased but I found out that isnt the case.
Whats the deal?
Nalha Saldana
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-04-23 00:11:50 UTC
BORTRON BEEFBURGER wrote:
I am new to this game so training for tech 2 Heavies seemed like an eternity.
Being hyped up thinking if it takes this long its going to be an amazing difference is what lead me to being bummed out.
I went from having 47 km range with tech 1 to 35 km using Tech 2.
You would figure that a higher tech version would have range and damage increased but I found out that isnt the case.
Whats the deal?


Use t1/faction ammo if you want range, the T2 launchers get a 2% ROF bonus per skill level so they are still a good choice.
BORTRON BEEFBURGER
Boner Kingdom
#3 - 2013-04-23 00:13:20 UTC
Nalha Saldana wrote:
BORTRON BEEFBURGER wrote:
I am new to this game so training for tech 2 Heavies seemed like an eternity.
Being hyped up thinking if it takes this long its going to be an amazing difference is what lead me to being bummed out.
I went from having 47 km range with tech 1 to 35 km using Tech 2.
You would figure that a higher tech version would have range and damage increased but I found out that isnt the case.
Whats the deal?


Use t1/faction ammo if you want range, the T2 launchers get a 2% ROF bonus per skill level so they are still a good choice.


Ya thats what I was doing.
So in your more experienced opinion is the 2% ROF worth the huge hit in range?
Korvus Falek
Depraved Corruption
Lux Inter Astra
#4 - 2013-04-23 00:14:58 UTC
Learn to use show info and compare tools on modules and ammo. Had you known about these earlier, you would have been able to read for yourself that t2 ammo has a range penalty while faction and t1 ammo do not. Its the price you pay for slightly better damage output.

However, yes, HMLs suck anyways, quit being a sheep and going down the drake/tengu path =P
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
#5 - 2013-04-23 00:15:57 UTC
BORTRON BEEFBURGER wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
BORTRON BEEFBURGER wrote:
I am new to this game so training for tech 2 Heavies seemed like an eternity.
Being hyped up thinking if it takes this long its going to be an amazing difference is what lead me to being bummed out.
I went from having 47 km range with tech 1 to 35 km using Tech 2.
You would figure that a higher tech version would have range and damage increased but I found out that isnt the case.
Whats the deal?


Use t1/faction ammo if you want range, the T2 launchers get a 2% ROF bonus per skill level so they are still a good choice.


Ya thats what I was doing.
So in your more experienced opinion is the 2% ROF worth the huge hit in range?


That's 2% per level of the spec skill, so up to 10%. Plus the higher damage on furies (or better ability to swap smaller targets on precision). Yes, T2 missiles are entirely worthwhile if you know how to use them. But there are certainly times when you'd be better off just firing CN instead.
BORTRON BEEFBURGER
Boner Kingdom
#6 - 2013-04-23 00:17:17 UTC
Korvus Falek wrote:
Learn to use show info and compare tools on modules and ammo. Had you known about these earlier, you would have been able to read for yourself that t2 ammo has a range penalty while faction and t1 ammo do not. Its the price you pay for slightly better damage output.

However, yes, HMLs suck anyways, quit being a sheep and going down the drake/tengu path =P


Having a bad day?
Its ok little buddy life will pick up for you...... possibly.
BORTRON BEEFBURGER
Boner Kingdom
#7 - 2013-04-23 00:17:34 UTC
Zhilia Mann wrote:
BORTRON BEEFBURGER wrote:
Nalha Saldana wrote:
BORTRON BEEFBURGER wrote:
I am new to this game so training for tech 2 Heavies seemed like an eternity.
Being hyped up thinking if it takes this long its going to be an amazing difference is what lead me to being bummed out.
I went from having 47 km range with tech 1 to 35 km using Tech 2.
You would figure that a higher tech version would have range and damage increased but I found out that isnt the case.
Whats the deal?


Use t1/faction ammo if you want range, the T2 launchers get a 2% ROF bonus per skill level so they are still a good choice.


Ya thats what I was doing.
So in your more experienced opinion is the 2% ROF worth the huge hit in range?


That's 2% per level of the spec skill, so up to 10%. Plus the higher damage on furies (or better ability to swap smaller targets on precision). Yes, T2 missiles are entirely worthwhile if you know how to use them. But there are certainly times when you'd be better off just firing CN instead.


Thanks for your help.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#8 - 2013-04-23 00:19:07 UTC
The launchers themselves don't have any range value, thats the missiles. Furies have less range than t1 missiles but more damage. Using t1 missiles with t2 launchers is pretty much a straight upgrade from using t1 missiles in a t1 launcher (except fitting costs)

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
BORTRON BEEFBURGER
Boner Kingdom
#9 - 2013-04-23 00:21:10 UTC
ACE McFACE wrote:
The launchers themselves don't have any range value, thats the missiles. Furies have less range than t1 missiles but more damage. Using t1 missiles with t2 launchers is pretty much a straight upgrade from using t1 missiles in a t1 launcher (except fitting costs)


Ya thats what I started doing.
I thought once you had tech 2 launchers you had to use tech 2 missiles but I was wrong so at least I can still use tech 1 for the range.
Thanks for the help.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#10 - 2013-04-23 00:48:45 UTC
BORTRON BEEFBURGER wrote:
ACE McFACE wrote:
The launchers themselves don't have any range value, thats the missiles. Furies have less range than t1 missiles but more damage. Using t1 missiles with t2 launchers is pretty much a straight upgrade from using t1 missiles in a t1 launcher (except fitting costs)


Ya thats what I started doing.
I thought once you had tech 2 launchers you had to use tech 2 missiles but I was wrong so at least I can still use tech 1 for the range.
Thanks for the help.

No problem

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-04-23 01:58:16 UTC
Also: don't use furies vs anything smaller than a BC, the increased explosion radius and decreased explosion velocity means furies are awful vs small targets.

I generally use precision vs frigates and normal ammo vs everything else and then switch to furies for BS

Art of Explosions
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-04-23 03:01:48 UTC
Hmls as a whole have always sucked, and just got a nerf due to Winmatar whine about drakes. Now is a bad time to get into it.
Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#13 - 2013-04-23 06:25:18 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Hmls as a whole have always sucked, and just got a nerf due to Winmatar whine about drakes. Now is a bad time to get into it.


HMLs have been brought in line with the other long range medium weapon systems, not beceause of the garbage you're spewing out...
Garresh
Mackies Raiders
Wild Geese.
#14 - 2013-04-23 06:31:05 UTC
All that said, the relatively minor increase in damage for tech 2 is by design. You're new, but its the diminishing returns on skill point investment that allow players who are only 3 months old to pose a threat to 8 year old players. Its pretty much a core design philosophy of eve and you should be glad the differences are so minor. That said, always fit t2 weapons if you can. They're generally easy to train for and pretty cost effective.

This Space Intentionally Left Blank
Stan'din
Pandemic Alpha
#15 - 2013-04-23 07:00:40 UTC
Kalihira wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Hmls as a whole have always sucked, and just got a nerf due to Winmatar whine about drakes. Now is a bad time to get into it.


HMLs have been brought in line with the other long range medium weapon systems, not beceause of the garbage you're spewing out...



You mean like medium rails ? haha

So instead of buffing medium rails they brought HML down the level of that **** excuse for a weapons system

Your about as much use as a condom dispenser in the Vatican.
Kalihira
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#16 - 2013-04-23 12:28:39 UTC
Stan'din wrote:
Kalihira wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Hmls as a whole have always sucked, and just got a nerf due to Winmatar whine about drakes. Now is a bad time to get into it.


HMLs have been brought in line with the other long range medium weapon systems, not beceause of the garbage you're spewing out...



You mean like medium rails ? haha

So instead of buffing medium rails they brought HML down the level of that **** excuse for a weapons system


Medium long range weapons in general, and rails in particular have issues, yes, but that has nothing to do with my reply. And besides, HMLs still trumph med rails in both range and damage.
Ginger Barbarella
#17 - 2013-04-23 16:59:01 UTC
If using Heavies is of interest then you might look to ships or rigs that increase your flight time, for example. Look at the Cerberus: with a 10% bonus to missile velocity per Cal Cruiser level and a 10% to Assault and Heavy velocity flight time per Heavy Assault ship level, you can get sick range out of those missiles. I have a 92km range on that with Scourge Furies and 61km with Scourge Precision. As long as you can keep the baddies at range it's a decent ship. Just don't go toe-to-toe or you'll get trounced.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-04-23 17:25:47 UTC
Kalihira wrote:
Stan'din wrote:
Kalihira wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Hmls as a whole have always sucked, and just got a nerf due to Winmatar whine about drakes. Now is a bad time to get into it.


HMLs have been brought in line with the other long range medium weapon systems, not beceause of the garbage you're spewing out...



You mean like medium rails ? haha

So instead of buffing medium rails they brought HML down the level of that **** excuse for a weapons system


Medium long range weapons in general, and rails in particular have issues, yes, but that has nothing to do with my reply. And besides, HMLs still trumph med rails in both range and damage.


And tracking...

Wait, ah, now I see why they are what they are, well, among other things...Lol

I know, let's turn your Winmatard boats all into hml boats and see how you like it. Cyclone is a good start, but not nearly enough. Be glad, hmls have so much more range than ACs after all... Speaking of which, would you prefer rails instead?Cool
Dr Cedric
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-04-23 18:43:15 UTC
Don't forget about ship bonuses when you're looking at T2 ammo.

For example: the current Nighthawk (caldari Command ship) offers damage bonus, ROF bonus and an explosion velocity bonus. I've found that the NH is exceptional at frig swatting even w/ T2 Furies, and especially with T1/Precision because of these bonuses.

Once you start down the path of T2, you'll need to decide what niche(s) you want to fill. T2 means very good at one thing, worse at others and not good at everything.

Cedric
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#20 - 2013-04-23 18:56:54 UTC
T2 launchers gets you more DPS and more missile options for more damage on both large and small targets. That's not a bad thing.

DPS Multiplier = 1 / (1 - Heavy Missile Specialization * 2%)

Level 1: 1.0204
Level 2: 1.0416
Level 3: 1.0638
Level 4: 1.0869
Level 5: 1.1111

T2 Fury heavy missiles are great vs. battlecruisers and battleships, and best used with a target painter vs. cruisers and destroyers (destroyers are small, but weak, and tend to not require changing missiles). Faction or T2 Precision are best vs. frigates, though light drones are a better alternative if you have a drone bay.
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