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Why Two Step Will Be Missed On The CSM

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dark heartt
#61 - 2013-04-26 07:03:47 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
dark heartt wrote:
And not only that, but was it covered by NDA?

It was covered by their policy not to comment on bans publicly.

But the fact we lost a member of our voice with no notification is quiet frankly wrong.

These are not just players, they are our representatives to CCP.

I wonder if they included his votes in the count for wasted votes like they did The Mittani's.
As we lost 2 members of CSM7, maybe they do need to bring back the alternates idea.


Stop looking at it through your bias for a moment.

It'd be wrong if CCP randomly removed a member of the CSM for disagreeing with them, not if that PLAYER did something to warrant a ban. For all that the members of the CSM are they are still bound by the same rules as a regular player. That's why Mittens got banned for what happened at Fanfest, and that's why Darius III was banned.

If we lost a member of the voice of the players for doing something that players cannot do, how is that wrong? That just shows that CCP shows no favorites to anyone.

I agree with you about the alternates though. That shouldn't have ever been scrapped to be honest.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#62 - 2013-04-26 07:05:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Frying Doom wrote:
We did not need to be informed of a Staff firing, only that a CSM member had been banned, pending an investigation.


And then they have to deal with thousands of shirtlords screaming bloody murder for the dev's name, and demanding to know if said dev still has a job, etc etc etc. With cases like this, it's either all the information or none of the information, and in this case we need none of this information and are most likely going to cause unnecessary harm with all of the information.

dark heartt wrote:
I agree with you about the alternates though. That shouldn't have ever been scrapped to be honest.


Alternates really have no purpose. They're either going to be fully integrated by the sitting CSM and thus the distinction is irrelevant, or they'll be marginalized as second class citizens which is just A Bad Thing.

Sound familiar? It should, because it's the reason they dropped the alternates thing and expanded the council to a full 14 members instead. Losing 1 or 2 members isn't really going to change very much (esp. when one of those members is Darius III).

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Prince Kobol
#63 - 2013-04-26 07:07:29 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
dark heartt wrote:
And not only that, but was it covered by NDA?

It was covered by their policy not to comment on bans publicly.

But the fact we lost a member of our voice with no notification is quiet frankly wrong.

These are not just players, they are our representatives to CCP.

I wonder if they included his votes in the count for wasted votes like they did The Mittani's.
As we lost 2 members of CSM7, maybe they do need to bring back the alternates idea.


Stop looking at it through your bias for a moment.

It'd be wrong if CCP randomly removed a member of the CSM for disagreeing with them, not if that PLAYER did something to warrant a ban. For all that the members of the CSM are they are still bound by the same rules as a regular player. That's why Mittens got banned for what happened at Fanfest, and that's why Darius III was banned.

If we lost a member of the voice of the players for doing something that players cannot do, how is that wrong? That just shows that CCP shows no favorites to anyone.

I agree with you about the alternates though. That shouldn't have ever been scrapped to be honest.


That would be fine IF both CCP and the CSM made an announcement that D3 had been banned and why.

All they needed to do is come out with a short statement saying that the CSM member D3 has been removed form the CSM and has temporary banned from Eve whilst pending an investigation to him possible break the NDA...

Again its called being open and honest.

Instead it now looks like they banned and tried to silence him because he was actually telling the truth which is a very bad thing because anything that gives validity to D3 is bad.
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2013-04-26 07:09:21 UTC
Prince Kobol wrote:
[All they needed to do is come out with a short statement saying that the CSM member D3 has been removed form the CSM and has temporary banned from Eve whilst pending an investigation to him possible break the NDA...


And why do they "need" to do this again? Also do you have any proof at all that NDA is why D3 was even banned?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Frying Doom
#65 - 2013-04-26 07:09:28 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
We did not need to be informed of a Staff firing, only that a CSM member had been banned, pending an investigation.


And then they have to deal with thousands of shirtlords screaming bloody murder for the dev's name, and demanding to know if said dev still has a job, etc etc etc. With cases like this, it's either all the information or none of the information, and in this case we need none of this information and are most likely going to cause unnecessary harm with all of the information.

We did not need to know there was a dev involved at all.

Just that a CSM member was banned pending an investigation.

As I said maybe Alternates were not such a bad idea as we have lost 2 out of CSM 7, that we know of.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
dark heartt
#66 - 2013-04-26 07:12:52 UTC
Has there been any proof besides what D3 said to show he was actually banned?

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-04-26 07:14:16 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
[Just that a CSM member was banned pending an investigation.


We don't need to know that either, assuming it's even true that he's been banned at all, or assuming that it was "pending an investigation" or anything that would require one.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Prince Kobol
#68 - 2013-04-26 07:20:10 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
We did not need to be informed of a Staff firing, only that a CSM member had been banned, pending an investigation.


And then they have to deal with thousands of shirtlords screaming bloody murder for the dev's name, and demanding to know if said dev still has a job, etc etc etc. With cases like this, it's either all the information or none of the information, and in this case we need none of this information and are most likely going to cause unnecessary harm with all of the information.



Why your wrong considering the news is out there and very easy to find.

So instead of knowing the facts, we have conjecture and innocent people being accused of things they had no involvement in.
Frying Doom
#69 - 2013-04-26 07:22:15 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
[Just that a CSM member was banned pending an investigation.


We don't need to know that either, assuming it's even true that he's been banned at all, or assuming that it was "pending an investigation" or anything that would require one.

If a member of the CSM is removed.

Yes the players need to know. They are there to be our voice and in areas covering the CSM, CCP should provide notifications.

For one thing it would save the whole "If he was banned at all" stuff. Next you will be telling me the CSM leak was a fake and that the Moon landings were actually taped by aliens.

But either way around, I do think this really leads to the need for alternates as well as the need for a more transparent CSM.

Look at the STV mess, out of now 12 CSM members we know where 5 stood, were the rest blocked, ignored, banned, absent, awol? As players we should know where the individual members stood, and how many there actually are.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Prince Kobol
#70 - 2013-04-26 07:22:25 UTC
Also, CCP have in the past informed players when CSM members have been removed and why.. so why not this time?
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2013-04-26 07:24:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Prince Kobol wrote:
[Why your wrong considering the news is out there and very easy to find.

So instead of knowing the facts, we have conjecture and innocent people being accused of things they had no involvement in.


Which is precisely what you would have had if they'd have released even partial information, except it would have made people even angrier since CCP thought it was important enough to tell us, but not to give us all of the information.

Besides, CCP making an official statement has a far, far wider audience than an attention whore troll posting on a 3rd party forum full of people who don't care about what little he has to offer.

Prince Kobol wrote:
Also, CCP have in the past informed players when CSM members have been removed and why.. so why not this time?


Again, do you have any evidence that D3 has actually been banned or actually removed from the CSM?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
Frying Doom
#72 - 2013-04-26 07:32:04 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:


Prince Kobol wrote:
Also, CCP have in the past informed players when CSM members have been removed and why.. so why not this time?


Again, do you have any evidence that D3 has actually been banned or actually removed from the CSM?

Given their stance do you expect any?

GM Salmon wrote:
The policy of CCP is not to publicly discuss warnings and bans on an individual basis. This situation is entirely unique because the panel was displayed via CCP’s Fanfest video stream component, a platform analogous to our forums. As a result we have published this statement due to the special circumstances involved. However, our policy remains that we will not publicly discuss warnings and bans.


You are using their lack of transparency in these matters as proof that it did not happen.

The ball on that one is in CCPs court, they have commented before and they need to again, even if it is to call D3 a liar.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-04-26 07:36:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Snow Axe
Frying Doom wrote:
You are using their lack of transparency in these matters as proof that it did not happen..


Nope, I don't know if it happened tbh and I haven't said one way or the other (nor will I). It's you guys who are trying to pin blame on CCP and CSM for not announcing something that you don't even know happened. They've absolutely announced CSM removals in the past (both Ankh and Larkonis) as well as Mittani's failure to qualify this year due to his ban, and yet they've said nothing about Darius III. Has it occurred to either of you that maybe he HASN'T been removed yet, if at all? Or banned from the game, for that matter?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
dark heartt
#74 - 2013-04-26 07:37:58 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:


Prince Kobol wrote:
Also, CCP have in the past informed players when CSM members have been removed and why.. so why not this time?


Again, do you have any evidence that D3 has actually been banned or actually removed from the CSM?

Given their stance do you expect any?

GM Salmon wrote:
The policy of CCP is not to publicly discuss warnings and bans on an individual basis. This situation is entirely unique because the panel was displayed via CCP’s Fanfest video stream component, a platform analogous to our forums. As a result we have published this statement due to the special circumstances involved. However, our policy remains that we will not publicly discuss warnings and bans.


You are using their lack of transparency in these matters as proof that it did not happen.

The ball on that one is in CCPs court, they have commented before and they need to again, even if it is to call D3 a liar.


They commented on Mittens banning because it was common knowledge. If Darius was banned (and I actually doubt it as he is an attention *****) it was not common knowledge, therefore no need for comment.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Frying Doom
#75 - 2013-04-26 07:39:51 UTC
dark heartt wrote:


They commented on Mittens banning because it was common knowledge. If Darius was banned (and I actually doubt it as he is an attention *****) it was not common knowledge, therefore no need for comment.

They commented on The Mittani, as it was a major crap storm, with articles on main stream sites, so they had to comment.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Frying Doom
#76 - 2013-04-26 07:42:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
You are using their lack of transparency in these matters as proof that it did not happen..


Nope, I don't know if it happened tbh and I haven't said one way or the other (nor will I). It's you guys who are trying to pin blame on CCP and CSM for not announcing something that you don't even know happened. They've absolutely announced CSM removals in the past (both Ankh and Larkonis) as well as Mittani's failure to qualify this year due to his ban, and yet they've said nothing about Darius III. Has it occurred to either of you that maybe he HASN'T been removed yet, if at all? Or banned from the game, for that matter?

If it was a temporary ban not a removal, they would not announce it as it is temporary.

As to Darius said it, I could say I read it on the number 1 eve news site, but even I cannot say that without laughing.Lol

And if it is false, we need to assume it is true as the liable damages for CCP will be larger Smile

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#77 - 2013-04-26 07:44:22 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
As to Darius said it, I could say I read it on the number 1 eve news site, but even I cannot say that without laughing.Lol


And what was said website's source?

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["
dark heartt
#78 - 2013-04-26 07:52:01 UTC
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
As to Darius said it, I could say I read it on the number 1 eve news site, but even I cannot say that without laughing.Lol


And what was said website's source?


Darius III himself shiptoasting on a forum somewhere

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Frying Doom
#79 - 2013-04-26 07:56:00 UTC
dark heartt wrote:
Snow Axe wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:
As to Darius said it, I could say I read it on the number 1 eve news site, but even I cannot say that without laughing.Lol


And what was said website's source?


Darius III himself shiptoasting on a forum somewhere

True or fFalse it does lead to some questions

Can CCP temporarily ban a CSM member for months on end so it does not need to inform the playerbase of their removal?

Do we need alternates again?

Personally I think they do need to inform us when they are stopping a CSM member and I must admit I am becoming a fan of alternates.

But either way around and no matter where this leads, some lawyers are about to get richer.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!
Snow Axe
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2013-04-26 07:59:11 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
True or fFalse it does lead to some questionsr.


Nice attempt to cover the fact that you went on a rage because you actually were stupid enough to believe something Darius III said.

"Look any reason why you need to talk like that? I have now reported you. I dont need to listen to your bad tone. If you cant have a grown up conversation then leave the thread["