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Why Two Step Will Be Missed On The CSM

First post
Author
Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-04-20 23:34:06 UTC
from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2013/04/why-two-step-will-be-missed-on-csm.html

We vote our representatives to be exactly that, to be advocates for the playerbase, to fight our fights when necessary. That's something we saw very little of during CSM7's term in office.

Two Step understood why he was elected. Over the very strong objections of his fellow representatives, he took his advocacy public, he took the fight public. He rallied his fellow players, and brought the power of hundreds of voices to CCP's doorstep.

In late 2012 CCP announced that it would not be tackling a player-owned starbase [POS] revamp in 2013. Based on the verbiage of that dev post, it did not seem like CCP would tackle the project in 2014 either. The playerbase has long wanted a POS revamp, they were expecting a POS revamp. There was a feeling of betrayal, a feeling of having the rug pulled out from under them, when CCP made their announcement. "This is a change that will only affect a small number of players. We do not see the benefit of investing the large number of resources it would require to revamp POSes for a small percentage of the playerbase."

Two Step was understandably upset with this announcement. He represents wormhole players, players who must use POSes as the backbone of their organizations and operations. The shortcomings of current POS design affect them most deeply. Of course, Two Step knew about CCP's decision for weeks, but being under NDA restrictions could not talk about it publicly. That is, until CCP made the announcement themselves.

Against the strong objections of his fellow CSM7 representatives, who feared that rocking the boat, calling out CCP's decision publicly, could affect their access to development, he rallied the playerbase on the forums. He created a thread through which players could voice their dissatisfaction with the CCP starbase decision.

Unlike his fellow representatives, Two Step advocated for his constituents. He was not concerned with self-interest. he was not concerned with keeping CCP happy. He recognized, correctly, that his role, as given to him by the players, was not to ensure CCP's comfort, but to speak for the players, and to do it strongly and forcefully when necessary. This was one of those necessary moments.

Behind the scenes, the rest of CSM7 berated Two Step for his actions, fretting and worrying that CCP could, at any moment, cut off their privileged access. These were CSM representatives worried less about player concerns, and worried more about their own self-interest. These weren't advocates for the players, but advocates for their own privilege.

Like The Mittani, during CSM6, during the Incarna and Greed is Good debacles, Two Step took to his activism at exactly the right time and to exactly the right degree. He risked the animus of his CSM colleagues to do what he thought was right, to stand up for player concerns and expectations. Some would argue he put the CCP/CSM relationship at risk, but I disagree with that assertion strongly.

I for one believe that CCP has a thick-skin, and since it was they who created the CSM as a player-advocacy group, that very much expect and applaud when player-concerns are brought to them in a loud, clear and concerted voice. Two Step did exactly that. The player-demand for POS fixes was over 150 pages long. That is a voice that CCP could not fail to recognize.

It could be argued that Two Step's advocacy is the only reason why POS bandaids are being applied this Odyssey expansion. Without Two Step's advocacy, it is very likely that no POS work would have been attempted during 2013. Without Two Step gathering the players to voice their displeasure, CCP would have remained in the dark about the importance of POSes to the playerbase, the importance to a much larger percentage of players than CCP previously imagined.

Two Step is to be applauded. The only person on CSM7 with the gumption to stand up to his colleagues, to do exactly what he was elected to do, to advocate for his constituents. The CSM could use more Two Steps. Raising a hue and cry is not always necessary, but we need CSM representatives who can recognize when it is necessary and who have the balls do what is necessary, even in the face of opposition. CSM8 should take heed of Two Step's actions, and what the power of activism can accomplish.
Frying Doom
#2 - 2013-04-21 00:13:55 UTC
While I oppose some of his views.

He was that kind of Voice the players need.

The one who will stand up for the players and fight when needed.

Thank you Two Step, your actions helped so many POS users and whether or not they want to believe it you helped CCP a lot too. If someone else had started that thread it would have had a very different ending.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#3 - 2013-04-21 03:13:53 UTC
My comment to your blog:

While I appreciate the complement, I have a couple of bones to pick with this post.

Firstly, not everyone on the CSM opposed me doing what I did. Some were 100% behind me, and nearly everyone agreed at least somewhat with my actions. I'd also point out that without the work of many of the other CSM members, even the small POS fixes we are getting might not have happened (or been as extensive as they hopefully will prove to be). Specifically, Alek, Hans and Trebor all worked really hard, and certainly deserve much credit.

Secondly, I *did* put the CCP/CSM relationship at risk, and my one regret was not talking a little more to the right people at CCP *before* the threadnaught. I don't think they could have said anything that would have changed my mind, but they deserved to have at least a heads up before the forum post.

Thirdly, the threadnaught was very risky on its own. Luckily people stayed civil and constructive, and the feedback I got from many people at CCP was that it was the nicest threadnaught they had ever seen. The credit for that is all on the people who posted, and without *them*, the pretty positive situation we are in right now could have been very very different.

As for CSM 8, I hope they are never in a situation where a threadnaught seems like a good option to them. When everything is working correctly, a threadnaught shouldn't be needed at all, and you certainly shouldn't judge an entire CSM term by one.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-04-21 03:19:45 UTC
Two step wrote:
Secondly, I *did* put the CCP/CSM relationship at risk ...
It's a shame that you feel that you can't properly advocate for the players without feeling like you're in CCP crosshairs at every moment. The slightest mistake ...

Is CCP that thin-skinned that they hang the CSM privilege under your nose like a carrot, threatening to yank it away at the least slight? I find that hard to believe.
Alekseyev Karrde
Noir.
Shadow Cartel
#5 - 2013-04-21 03:58:19 UTC
Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Two step wrote:
Secondly, I *did* put the CCP/CSM relationship at risk ...
It's a shame that you feel that you can't properly advocate for the players without feeling like you're in CCP crosshairs at every moment. The slightest mistake ...

Is CCP that thin-skinned that they hang the CSM privilege under your nose like a carrot, threatening to yank it away at the least slight? I find that hard to believe.

Vikings can be very sensitive

Alek the Kidnapper, Hero of the CSM

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#6 - 2013-04-21 03:59:27 UTC
(Why was my other comment approved on your blog post, but this isn't yet visible?)

Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Two step wrote:
Secondly, I *did* put the CCP/CSM relationship at risk ...
It's a shame that you feel that you can't properly advocate for the players without feeling like you're in CCP crosshairs at every moment. The slightest mistake ...

Is CCP that thin-skinned that they hang the CSM privilege under your nose like a carrot, threatening to yank it away at the least slight? I find that hard to believe.


Honestly, it is optional for many people at CCP to work with the CSM at all, and if they find that working with us is only getting them into trouble, they simply won't talk to us. A large part of being on the CSM is balancing the need to improve the access we get with the responsibilities of representing the players that elected us.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#7 - 2013-04-21 07:34:26 UTC
Two step wrote:
(Why was my other comment approved on your blog post, but this isn't yet visible?)

Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Two step wrote:
Secondly, I *did* put the CCP/CSM relationship at risk ...
It's a shame that you feel that you can't properly advocate for the players without feeling like you're in CCP crosshairs at every moment. The slightest mistake ...

Is CCP that thin-skinned that they hang the CSM privilege under your nose like a carrot, threatening to yank it away at the least slight? I find that hard to believe.


Honestly, it is optional for many people at CCP to work with the CSM at all, and if they find that working with us is only getting them into trouble, they simply won't talk to us. A large part of being on the CSM is balancing the need to improve the access we get with the responsibilities of representing the players that elected us.


I think you're forgetting that the primary purpose of the CSM is to produce drama for people to blog about.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Frying Doom
#8 - 2013-04-21 10:16:54 UTC
Two step wrote:
(Why was my other comment approved on your blog post, but this isn't yet visible?)

Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Two step wrote:
Secondly, I *did* put the CCP/CSM relationship at risk ...
It's a shame that you feel that you can't properly advocate for the players without feeling like you're in CCP crosshairs at every moment. The slightest mistake ...

Is CCP that thin-skinned that they hang the CSM privilege under your nose like a carrot, threatening to yank it away at the least slight? I find that hard to believe.


Honestly, it is optional for many people at CCP to work with the CSM at all, and if they find that working with us is only getting them into trouble, they simply won't talk to us. A large part of being on the CSM is balancing the need to improve the access we get with the responsibilities of representing the players that elected us.

Actually I find the whole thing a bit ridiculous, the only way you can advocate for the players, on a council voted on by the players, is to not make any waves with CCP, otherwise they will cut you off at the knees.

You would think that after the mistakes that CCP have made in the past they would learn that the voice of the players is invaluable and not hang the access carrot in front of your face.

Because lets face it if the CSM does not respond to and is not seen by, the players to be acting in their interests, well the CSM is of no use to the players at all.

A CSM that appears to be for the most part, another part of CCP will not be listened to by the players in times of doubt and crisis, after all why would the players when angry with CCP, then listen to a different part of CCP when it tells us to calm down.

This is why I had and still have so many problems with the changes to not just the voting system but the whole manner in which the 5 that go to Iceland are selected. We the players now have only the ability for our votes to select 2 people that go to Iceland and as Malcanis pointed out they will be 2 bloc members while CCP will decide on 5 people that they will choose to go to Iceland. Now CCP are more likely to pick the 5 that are most likely to agree with what they are proposing, so the purpose of the CSM is once again minimized, as the voices of what we the players desire is now watered down. Members of the CSM who work hard would probably like that trip, so now it looks like CCP is using bribery to curry the favor of the CSM.

CCP should be happy to work with a player elected body as it will lead to a better product and higher profits for them, as well as prevent them from making mistakes that have in the past cost them millions of dollars. The fact that our representatives are scared to act, is absolutely disgusting. The fact that one CSM member has stated that if the CSM is not useful to CCP it will be axed, is absolute rubbish.

I for one am shocked that CCP still does not seem to have the brains to use what it has. The CSM is a golden opportunity for them and if they had listened to it in the past it would have saved it Millions.

How often does the CSM have to show its worth before CCP accept it as it should be, as an equal. CCP builds the game and the players pay their wages to do so.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2013-04-21 12:28:34 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:
Two step wrote:
(Why was my other comment approved on your blog post, but this isn't yet visible?)

Poetic Stanziel wrote:
Two step wrote:
Secondly, I *did* put the CCP/CSM relationship at risk ...
It's a shame that you feel that you can't properly advocate for the players without feeling like you're in CCP crosshairs at every moment. The slightest mistake ...

Is CCP that thin-skinned that they hang the CSM privilege under your nose like a carrot, threatening to yank it away at the least slight? I find that hard to believe.


Honestly, it is optional for many people at CCP to work with the CSM at all, and if they find that working with us is only getting them into trouble, they simply won't talk to us. A large part of being on the CSM is balancing the need to improve the access we get with the responsibilities of representing the players that elected us.

Actually I find the whole thing a bit ridiculous, the only way you can advocate for the players, on a council voted on by the players, is to not make any waves with CCP, otherwise they will cut you off at the knees.

.


Can you cite examples of this happening?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Frying Doom
#10 - 2013-04-21 12:34:32 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Can you cite examples of this happening?

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
The minute the CSM fails to be of use to CCP is the minute it ceases to exist.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#11 - 2013-04-21 20:42:50 UTC
You're implying that CCP see the "usefulness" of the CSM as agreeing with them, despite numerous statements directly stating the opposite. I can also cite multiple incidents of the CSM publically strongly disagreeing with CCP, without the disagreeing members being kicked of the CSM, or CCP disbanding the CSM altogether. It is obvious therefore, that CCP do not see the CSM's function to be sycophantic, and that they won't kick people out just for disagreeing with them.

The factor you are missing is this: you can disagree with a colleague in a professional, constructive way that leads to an improved final situation, and that colleague - even if he's your manager or your employer, will not necessarily think the worse of you. In fact if he's worth the money he's paid, he'll respect and value you all the more.

Even when CCP were deep inside the :18 months: reality bubble, they never lost the plot so badly as to sanction the CSM for disagreeing with them.

So again, I challenge you: since you stated it as fact, cite your incidents of it actually happening.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Poetic Stanziel
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2013-04-21 22:05:04 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Even when CCP were deep inside the :18 months: reality bubble, they never lost the plot so badly as to sanction the CSM for disagreeing with them.
Exactly. Which is why CSM's fear of what could have happened due to Two Step's actions is ludicrous.
Frying Doom
#13 - 2013-04-21 22:43:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Frying Doom
Malcanis wrote:
You're implying that CCP see the "usefulness" of the CSM as agreeing with them, despite numerous statements directly stating the opposite. I can also cite multiple incidents of the CSM publically strongly disagreeing with CCP, without the disagreeing members being kicked of the CSM, or CCP disbanding the CSM altogether. It is obvious therefore, that CCP do not see the CSM's function to be sycophantic, and that they won't kick people out just for disagreeing with them.

The factor you are missing is this: you can disagree with a colleague in a professional, constructive way that leads to an improved final situation, and that colleague - even if he's your manager or your employer, will not necessarily think the worse of you. In fact if he's worth the money he's paid, he'll respect and value you all the more.

Even when CCP were deep inside the :18 months: reality bubble, they never lost the plot so badly as to sanction the CSM for disagreeing with them.

So again, I challenge you: since you stated it as fact, cite your incidents of it actually happening.

I was specifically talking about the change that seems to have occurred during CSM7 and why they suddenly became CCP cheerleaders.

Maybe you can point to CSM7 strongly disagreeing with CCP?

It is either CCP has become a threat to the continued survival of the CSM, if it speaks out or CSM7 were really very paranoid and have acted in what they perceive as a climate of fear. In that they must not speak out or they will have access removed from them or the removal of the CSM its self.

To be honest the best test of what is going on will be CSM8, if you act like CSM7, it will pretty much confirm it.
And I dont mean with the lack of communication and lack of transparency, I mean if you remain quiet when they are screwing something up, Odyssey will be a good test of CSM8 as will the next expansion.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Two step
Aperture Harmonics
#14 - 2013-04-22 02:03:20 UTC
Frying Doom wrote:


To be honest the best test of what is going on will be CSM8, if you act like CSM7, it will pretty much confirm it.
And I dont mean with the lack of communication and lack of transparency, I mean if you remain quiet when they are screwing something up, Odyssey will be a good test of CSM8 as will the next expansion.


A lot of people still don't get it. Odyssey is CSM7's second expansion. By the time CSM8 takes office, Odyssey will be locked in, just like the way Inferno was locked in by the time CSM7 took office.

CSM 7 Secretary CSM 6 Alternate Delegate @two_step_eve on Twitter My Blog

Frying Doom
#15 - 2013-04-22 02:06:41 UTC
Two step wrote:
Frying Doom wrote:


To be honest the best test of what is going on will be CSM8, if you act like CSM7, it will pretty much confirm it.
And I dont mean with the lack of communication and lack of transparency, I mean if you remain quiet when they are screwing something up, Odyssey will be a good test of CSM8 as will the next expansion.


A lot of people still don't get it. Odyssey is CSM7's second expansion. By the time CSM8 takes office, Odyssey will be locked in, just like the way Inferno was locked in by the time CSM7 took office.

What I was meaning was that CSM8 will be in office when Odyssey is released, so locked in or not the CSM should speak out if CCP completely screw something up. As we have seen in the past locked in does not mean unalterable.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#16 - 2013-04-22 06:29:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Frying Doom wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
You're implying that CCP see the "usefulness" of the CSM as agreeing with them, despite numerous statements directly stating the opposite. I can also cite multiple incidents of the CSM publically strongly disagreeing with CCP, without the disagreeing members being kicked of the CSM, or CCP disbanding the CSM altogether. It is obvious therefore, that CCP do not see the CSM's function to be sycophantic, and that they won't kick people out just for disagreeing with them.

The factor you are missing is this: you can disagree with a colleague in a professional, constructive way that leads to an improved final situation, and that colleague - even if he's your manager or your employer, will not necessarily think the worse of you. In fact if he's worth the money he's paid, he'll respect and value you all the more.

Even when CCP were deep inside the :18 months: reality bubble, they never lost the plot so badly as to sanction the CSM for disagreeing with them.

So again, I challenge you: since you stated it as fact, cite your incidents of it actually happening.

I was specifically talking about the change that seems to have occurred during CSM7 and why they suddenly became CCP cheerleaders.

Maybe you can point to CSM7 strongly disagreeing with CCP?


With the exception of a rather incautiously worded comment about POS, what have they had to strongly disagree with CCP about? What have CCP "completely screwed up"? Do you think that the significant absence of complete screwups might have anything to do with the CSM putting in a lot of hours with CCP, and intercepting any bad (or simply improving sub-optimal) proposals before the release stage?

"Dambit CCP, stop rebalancing the entire ship range or we will call down the wrath of the gaming media on your heads!"

"Grrr a working bounty system DOWN TOOLS EVERYBODY OUT"

"More UI improvements and performance fixes? This is an attack on our socialist brotherhood, comrades!"


As I said previously, you are locked into a mindset where the CSM's sole metric of value is how vigorously they oppose CCP's plans. I hope that's not true, because its definitely not the relationship with CCP that I had in mind when I decided to run. Have you ever seen this film? You sound like the Peter Sellers character.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#17 - 2013-04-22 06:35:00 UTC
And incidentally, since you can't cite a single example of CCP sanctioning even 1 CSM member for disagreeing with them, I'm going to go ahead and call bullshit on your statement that they would.

It's bullshit, you're completely wrong, you should man up and admit it.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#18 - 2013-04-22 06:43:07 UTC
Clearly you're just not in the know about the REAL reason Ankhaseptictankah was booted :tinfoil:

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#19 - 2013-04-22 06:47:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Clearly you're just not in the know about the REAL reason Ankhaseptictankah was booted :tinfoil:


Publically accusing someone who makes their living in the gaming industry of breaking an NDA is an extremely serious step. If Miss Jobse hadn't broken it, then it would very difficult to explain why she would just supinely accept that career-destroying accusation and leave it unanswered.

EDIT: I mean apart from the obvious fact of her shy, self-effacing, publicity-avoiding nature

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Frying Doom
#20 - 2013-04-22 07:43:19 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Clearly you're just not in the know about the REAL reason Ankhaseptictankah was booted :tinfoil:


Publically accusing someone who makes their living in the gaming industry of breaking an NDA is an extremely serious step. If Miss Jobse hadn't broken it, then it would very difficult to explain why she would just supinely accept that career-destroying accusation and leave it unanswered.

EDIT: I mean apart from the obvious fact of her shy, self-effacing, publicity-avoiding nature

Your on a role today, telling us all what being in the CSM is really like and now quotes on an NDA. The same NDA which is described as "The NDA is vague and can be used to swat any of us down pretty much at will."

So as I said before CSM8 will tell us a lot.

Any spelling, grammatical and punctuation errors are because frankly, I don't care!!

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