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Warp Core Stabiizer question
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MarketSpy001
Project Dorsai
Galactic Republic Alliance
#1 - 2013-04-20 03:19:26 UTC
I have always been surprised at how generally balanced EVE is. I was doing some research on PVP and I came across something I find to be odd. Why is it that there are numerous Warp Disruptors that give a +3 for warp scramble strength, but there are no Warp Stabilizers that even give a +2 to warp strength? Am I missing something? Thanks!
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#2 - 2013-04-20 03:30:13 UTC
MarketSpy001 wrote:
I have always been surprised at how generally balanced EVE is. I was doing some research on PVP and I came across something I find to be odd. Why is it that there are numerous Warp Disruptors that give a +3 for warp scramble strength, but there are no Warp Stabilizers that even give a +2 to warp strength? Am I missing something? Thanks!


That's intended, you have to fit more and more WCSs to get away.

And bubbles have more strength than 8 and are thus impossible to escape without a T3 with interdiction nulifier subsystem.

The Drake is a Lie
MarketSpy001
Project Dorsai
Galactic Republic Alliance
#3 - 2013-04-20 03:39:20 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
MarketSpy001 wrote:
I have always been surprised at how generally balanced EVE is. I was doing some research on PVP and I came across something I find to be odd. Why is it that there are numerous Warp Disruptors that give a +3 for warp scramble strength, but there are no Warp Stabilizers that even give a +2 to warp strength? Am I missing something? Thanks!


That's intended, you have to fit more and more WCSs to get away.

And bubbles have more strength than 8 and are thus impossible to escape without a T3 with interdiction nulifier subsystem.


It just seems odd to me that there is no way to compensate without tapping out your low slots. I can scramble someone with one slot used, and they have to use as many as three slots to compensate... Seems to defy the balance piece of this game. But hey, I guess that just means I don't have to fit more than 1 and they can't get away.
Sobaan Tali
Caldari Quick Reaction Force
#4 - 2013-04-20 03:52:43 UTC
MarketSpy001 wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
MarketSpy001 wrote:
I have always been surprised at how generally balanced EVE is. I was doing some research on PVP and I came across something I find to be odd. Why is it that there are numerous Warp Disruptors that give a +3 for warp scramble strength, but there are no Warp Stabilizers that even give a +2 to warp strength? Am I missing something? Thanks!


That's intended, you have to fit more and more WCSs to get away.

And bubbles have more strength than 8 and are thus impossible to escape without a T3 with interdiction nulifier subsystem.


It just seems odd to me that there is no way to compensate without tapping out your low slots. I can scramble someone with one slot used, and they have to use as many as three slots to compensate... Seems to defy the balance piece of this game. But hey, I guess that just means I don't have to fit more than 1 and they can't get away.


You actually nailed the point, iirc (no pun intended). WCS are not ment to be used to such a degree that they potentially immunize a ship from warp disruption and still have lows left over for gank/tank/etc. Giving more than +1 to warp strength to any ship that has a low slot is a little much in my opinion. You have to also remember that there are ships with up to eight lows, so they can theoretically escape from two of these +3 disruptors already. Addidng more stability per module could make them too viable for many combat vessels. I could be wrong about that, but I thought they were ment mainly for non-combat ships, i.e. transports, industrials, etc.

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Surfin's PlunderBunny
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-04-20 03:58:11 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:
MarketSpy001 wrote:
Xercodo wrote:
MarketSpy001 wrote:
I have always been surprised at how generally balanced EVE is. I was doing some research on PVP and I came across something I find to be odd. Why is it that there are numerous Warp Disruptors that give a +3 for warp scramble strength, but there are no Warp Stabilizers that even give a +2 to warp strength? Am I missing something? Thanks!


That's intended, you have to fit more and more WCSs to get away.

And bubbles have more strength than 8 and are thus impossible to escape without a T3 with interdiction nulifier subsystem.


It just seems odd to me that there is no way to compensate without tapping out your low slots. I can scramble someone with one slot used, and they have to use as many as three slots to compensate... Seems to defy the balance piece of this game. But hey, I guess that just means I don't have to fit more than 1 and they can't get away.


You actually nailed the point, iirc (no pun intended). WCS are not ment to be used to such a degree that they potentially immunize a ship from warp disruption and still have lows left over for gank/tank/etc. Giving more than +1 to warp strength to any ship that has a low slot is a little much in my opinion. You have to also remember that there are ships with up to eight lows, so they can theoretically escape from two of these +3 disruptors already. Addidng more stability per module could make them too viable for many combat vessels. I could be wrong about that, but I thought they were ment mainly for non-combat ships, i.e. transports, industrials, etc.


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MarketSpy001
Project Dorsai
Galactic Republic Alliance
#6 - 2013-04-20 04:00:38 UTC
Sobaan Tali wrote:


You actually nailed the point, iirc (no pun intended). WCS are not ment to be used to such a degree that they potentially immunize a ship from warp disruption and still have lows left over for gank/tank/etc. Giving more than +1 to warp strength to any ship that has a low slot is a little much in my opinion. You have to also remember that there are ships with up to eight lows, so they can theoretically escape from two of these +3 disruptors already. Addidng more stability per module could make them too viable for many combat vessels. I could be wrong about that, but I thought they were ment mainly for non-combat ships, i.e. transports, industrials, etc.


Don't those ship types usually have only 2-3 low slots?
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#7 - 2013-04-20 09:49:18 UTC
I know it sounds like a silly question but.. From what I know a warp scrambler provides two, not three, of warp strength penalty.

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Transmaritanus
Exergy.
#8 - 2013-04-20 10:10:10 UTC
Altrue wrote:
I know it sounds like a silly question but.. From what I know a warp scrambler provides two, not three, of warp strength penalty.



Some faction scramblers have 3 points.

It totally pisses off ventures when you use it.
Mithrantir Ob'lontra
Ixion Defence Systems
#9 - 2013-04-20 10:10:21 UTC
Altrue wrote:
I know it sounds like a silly question but.. From what I know a warp scrambler provides two, not three, of warp strength penalty.

I am not quite sure but I think that a warp disruptor field generator (with the appropriate script loaded) gives a +3 warp strength penalty.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#10 - 2013-04-20 10:30:42 UTC
Mithrantir Ob'lontra wrote:
Altrue wrote:
I know it sounds like a silly question but.. From what I know a warp scrambler provides two, not three, of warp strength penalty.

I am not quite sure but I think that a warp disruptor field generator (with the appropriate script loaded) gives a +3 warp strength penalty.


With the script loaded its infinite, no amount of stabs will save you
dark heartt
#11 - 2013-04-20 10:33:26 UTC
You shouldn't even fit the warp core stabs. They are basically useless now because most people fly with friends, and the slots can be used for better things.

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Lord Haur
Star Frontiers
Brotherhood of Spacers
#12 - 2013-04-20 10:56:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Lord Haur
BadAssMcKill wrote:
Mithrantir Ob'lontra wrote:
Altrue wrote:
I know it sounds like a silly question but.. From what I know a warp scrambler provides two, not three, of warp strength penalty.

I am not quite sure but I think that a warp disruptor field generator (with the appropriate script loaded) gives a +3 warp strength penalty.


With the script loaded its infinite, no amount of stabs will save you


Well, only 100 points, not infinite.

Not that that'll help you.
Xearal
Dead's Prostitutes
The Initiative.
#13 - 2013-04-20 11:27:20 UTC
The reason WCs are as they are is to ensure that getting into a fight is easier than getting out.
That is why they also penalise other areas of our ship. if they were to provice more than 1, it would become impossible for any soloing ship to intercept and grab another ship as it simply would be able to warp away. Thus further encouraging blob mentality.

A proper type/fitted ship CAN avoid a single tackler with enough warp stabs, however, if fitted like this, such a ship is unable to do anything combat wise ( working as intended ). And is by no means certain that you will escape, just increase your chances of it.

If +2 or even +3 WCs were introduced, they would making traveling through say lowsec far too safe, unless people start using dictors to stop you. A simple roaming pilot or small gang would be unable to stop such a ship at all.

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Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-04-20 11:32:12 UTC
MarketSpy001 wrote:
Why is it that there are numerous Warp Disruptors that give a +3 for warp scramble strength


The ones that give a +3 to scramble strength are faction and officer scrams, hope this helps

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Raistlim
Deep Space Supplies
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#15 - 2013-04-20 12:34:12 UTC
Little known fun fact:
T2 Warpcore stabs used to give 2 points of Warpstrength (pre Invention times).
IIRC the first T2 WCSs were given to BURN EDEN as a Alliance Tournament price.
Jame Jarl Retief
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-04-20 15:07:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jame Jarl Retief
Xearal wrote:
The reason WCs are as they are is to ensure that getting into a fight is easier than getting out.
That is why they also penalise other areas of our ship. if they were to provice more than 1, it would become impossible for any soloing ship to intercept and grab another ship as it simply would be able to warp away. Thus further encouraging blob mentality.


I feel that WCS currently fall under "broken" or "counterintuitive" category.

Look, besides taking up slots, WCS also have a severe lock penalty on top of fitting requirements. As such, if you fit a WC, you're pretty much saying right off the bat "I'm not going to fight, I'm going to run." BUT at the same time they're not efficient enough to escape with any degree of certainty, as pointed out above by other folks. So even if, by design and from the very beginning, your goal is to escape, not to fight, even so the WCs are not efficient enough to allow you to do that dependably. Hence the "broken" and "counterintuitive" rating from me.

In my mind, fitting WCS should make you very combat ineffective. And it does, see the lock penalty. BUT it should make you very escapable. But it doesn't. Hence, it doesn't perform its function. Either remove them altogether or make them efficient enough so that a single WCS compensates for a single scram (T1 for T1, T2 for T2 and faction for faction). Otherwise it's just broken. Which is nothing new in EVE.
CMD Ishikawa
New Eden Public Security Section 9
#17 - 2013-04-20 16:20:04 UTC
Those modules have very limited use if any at all.
Kurfin
Kippers and Jam Developments
#18 - 2013-04-20 18:48:42 UTC
On DSTs to supplement there 2 point bonus if you really can't fit you load in a blockade runner maybe?. Though stabs + cargo expanders + tank, I'm not sure how big cargo wise you could go anyway.

Or moving around unfitted or partially fitted ship while in low/null or hi under wardec. They're pretty niche.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#19 - 2013-04-20 18:53:11 UTC
Stabs are insurance; you should always do your best to not be in a position where they are useful and if you end up needing more than two you're generally screwed anyway.

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Hemmo Paskiainen
#20 - 2013-04-20 19:00:22 UTC
I put warpcore stabs on my panther

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