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Let's fix EvE PvE

Author
Xanos Blackpaw
Azure Consortium
#1 - 2013-04-19 17:00:34 UTC
Everyone know the PvE side of EvE are the worst part of the game. Not even mining can compare as at least you dont need to pay attention to that.

So how to fix the boring combat?


My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Current missions are only dangerous for a moment and only if you **** up your aggro.

With one or two more powerful ships instead, it would be tense during the entire fight instead of a boring yawn you are forced to pay attention to.

Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it?
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-04-19 17:08:16 UTC
Xanos Blackpaw wrote:
Everyone know the PvE side of EvE are the worst part of the game. Not even mining can compare as at least you dont need to pay attention to that.

So how to fix the boring combat?


My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Current missions are only dangerous for a moment and only if you **** up your aggro.

With one or two more powerful ships instead, it would be tense during the entire fight instead of a boring yawn you are forced to pay attention to.

Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it?


Equal to an actual player means ~50% change of losing, meaning reward will need to pay more than cost of your boat. 20 mil bounty would be... lvl2? 300 mil minimum for lvl4?
Xanos Blackpaw
Azure Consortium
#3 - 2013-04-19 17:10:52 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Xanos Blackpaw wrote:
Everyone know the PvE side of EvE are the worst part of the game. Not even mining can compare as at least you dont need to pay attention to that.

So how to fix the boring combat?


My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Current missions are only dangerous for a moment and only if you **** up your aggro.

With one or two more powerful ships instead, it would be tense during the entire fight instead of a boring yawn you are forced to pay attention to.

Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it?


Equal to an actual player means ~50% change of losing, meaning reward will need to pay more than cost of your boat. 20 mil bounty would be... lvl2? 300 mil minimum for lvl4?



Well, it would still be flown by a stupid AI. But maybe not equal to a player, but still actually dangerous if you are stupid.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#4 - 2013-04-19 17:45:29 UTC
Xanos Blackpaw wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Xanos Blackpaw wrote:
Everyone know the PvE side of EvE are the worst part of the game. Not even mining can compare as at least you dont need to pay attention to that.

So how to fix the boring combat?


My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Current missions are only dangerous for a moment and only if you **** up your aggro.

With one or two more powerful ships instead, it would be tense during the entire fight instead of a boring yawn you are forced to pay attention to.

Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it?


Equal to an actual player means ~50% change of losing, meaning reward will need to pay more than cost of your boat. 20 mil bounty would be... lvl2? 300 mil minimum for lvl4?



Well, it would still be flown by a stupid AI. But maybe not equal to a player, but still actually dangerous if you are stupid.

So still boring if you are a smart player.

My 4 year old son decided to "FIX" his tricycle by taking the wheels off. I said "what are you doing?" he said "I am fixing it." So I guess it depends on your definition of fix.

The high number of stupid A.I. ships is the fix for them not being as smart as players. Strength in numbers. What you suggest would be no more of a "FIX" then what my son did to his tricycle.

It is not broken, It does not need "FIXED"
Zor'katar
Matari Recreation
#5 - 2013-04-19 17:49:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Zor'katar
Xanos Blackpaw wrote:
My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps.

Look back at the threads around the time the new NPC AI was introduced. There were some dev posts indicating that this is the direction they're planning on going in. (Did a cursory glance and couldn't find them, but they're there.)

Edit: Here's one.
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#6 - 2013-04-19 18:04:30 UTC
Xanos Blackpaw wrote:

Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it?


Neither.

How much new PvE content has been added to EVE in the past 5 years?

A few new missions? A few new exploration sites? Incursions and wormholes?

Missions and exploration are always going to be same as quests and farming mats for professions in other MMO's but they could use a little love regardless. I can't think of another decent MMO that doesn't at least update or add quests on a semi-regular basis.

Incursions and wormholes were great additions and a blast when they came out, but content like that needs to get added a lot more regularly.

CCP is still on the right track after the 'Greed is Good' fiasco so maybe once they get ships balanced they'll get some new PvE in the game, the new scanning content announcement for Odyssey maybe just that, but we'll see.

Not today spaghetti.

Rengerel en Distel
#7 - 2013-04-19 18:17:37 UTC
They've said PVE isn't really going to get touched in the next year or so, so I wouldn't hold my breath. Of course, "fun" is subjective, and no two people will agree on what is or isn't fun.

With the increase in shiptoasting, the Report timer needs to be shortened.

sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-04-19 20:03:53 UTC
Xanos Blackpaw wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Xanos Blackpaw wrote:
Everyone know the PvE side of EvE are the worst part of the game. Not even mining can compare as at least you dont need to pay attention to that.

So how to fix the boring combat?


My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Current missions are only dangerous for a moment and only if you **** up your aggro.

With one or two more powerful ships instead, it would be tense during the entire fight instead of a boring yawn you are forced to pay attention to.

Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it?


Equal to an actual player means ~50% change of losing, meaning reward will need to pay more than cost of your boat. 20 mil bounty would be... lvl2? 300 mil minimum for lvl4?



Well, it would still be flown by a stupid AI. But maybe not equal to a player, but still actually dangerous if you are stupid.


Oh, so you mean noobs get to sell Plex to finance their game while vets still farm the improved rewards? Great plan there. That'll help with player retention.
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-04-19 20:45:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Kitty Bear
part of the problem is immersion and believability
another part is play style differentiation


you look at the AI ship type, and what it does doesn't really make sense
a kestrel has missile launchers .. why is the rat shooting at me with lasers, hybrids AND missiles
the AI loadouts need to make more sense
they need to follow the descriptions far better than they do currently



a pve fit is normally based around active boosters
a pvp fit is normaly based around a buffer tank

  • pvp fits need to be made more like pve fits
  • pve fits need to be made more like pvp fits


currently Point, Web & Prop form eve's trinity of abilities
if you try to break that trend, your laughed at, and informed you have a fail fit
even when you have long range weapons fitted, your expected to also fit a short range web & point
eve is full of ships that have specialised roles
eve is full of players that fit ships to do all things

CCP cant do anything about the people that play the game, they are stuck with them
but they can change the way ships work


when, if, ccp can work out how to do either, in a balanced and beneficial way, it should help make eve a better game (in my opinion)
hellcane
Never Back Down
#10 - 2013-04-19 23:51:25 UTC
Let's look at the last two changes that attempted to make pve more than face roll.

NPCs target drones - that went over well.
TD - went over well also, even though there were only 1-2 missions that had "bad" TD


What do you think these people will do when you make it so they might have to think harder than remembering triggers
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-04-20 01:32:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Gimme more Cynos
Xanos Blackpaw wrote:
Everyone know the PvE side of EvE are the worst part of the game. Not even mining can compare as at least you dont need to pay attention to that.

So how to fix the boring combat?


My suggesting would be to remove the gazillion very weak ships and put in one or two actually dangerous ones per mission instead that's equal to a actual player ships in power, both tank and dps. Current missions are only dangerous for a moment and only if you **** up your aggro.

With one or two more powerful ships instead, it would be tense during the entire fight instead of a boring yawn you are forced to pay attention to.

Besides...what's more fun? Taking down a hundred ships with a 200k bounty or a single strong ship with a 20mil bounty on it?


Great, the first 3 days I would like to enjoy warping 3 chars on the top of their heads.. and then I will be bored by easy missions not taking more than 5 minutes.. great Idea.. lolz.

Give back LV 5 in Highsec, with LP rewards reduced to 20k, so I can have fun with my buds without feeling like Superman in pink pony land (as this is what Lv4 feels like in a BS-party).
Vizvig
Savage Blizzard
#12 - 2013-04-20 03:49:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Vizvig
Really PVE task is make PLEX valuable.

And you should hate PvE to force you buy PLEX.

Because of this no funny PvE here, as long as there are PLEX.
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-04-20 07:09:08 UTC
Heh, if you don't like doing PvE content, then don't do it, plain and simple.

Also, speak for yourself. There's lot's of players who like doing PvE content.

It seems like every couple of weeks, there's another PvP player posting a thread about how PvE is boring and broken and then suggests that it be turned into a PvP simulation.

I like the current PvE content. The NPC's definitely could be balanced and brought in line with player ships, ie - EWAR, cap, weapons, etc but other than that, it's fine.


DMC
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#14 - 2013-04-20 07:41:37 UTC
hellcane wrote:
Let's look at the last two changes that attempted to make pve more than face roll.

NPCs target drones - that went over well.
TD - went over well also, even though there were only 1-2 missions that had "bad" TD


What do you think these people will do when you make it so they might have to think harder than remembering triggers


its a one at a time thing, and to be honest, they don't have to do more to missions right now (inflation has seriously hurt the effective income of missions anyway), ie I'd be perfectly happy to carry a long point into exploration to stop overseers warping out, and that would make for far more fun in racing for loot and stealing cans.
Cyrus Doul
kotitekoinen sissijuusto
#15 - 2013-04-20 19:44:16 UTC
Maybe get rid of Materials for War preparation storyline? It would be a little thing but I know i sure "love" having to go buy 8000 kernite in station with the agent every time. Started up mission alts cause bored and figured they might have fixed that after three years.
Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#16 - 2013-04-20 22:12:28 UTC
That suggestion is already implemented. In wormhole.
DSpite Culhach
#17 - 2013-04-21 10:13:35 UTC
As a variation, I'd prefer if the L1-L4 could be split among hull types, so basically you get missions that vary in difficulty 1-4 for frigs only, destroyer only etc etc to Battleships, technically having accelleration gates size lockouts.

The L1 would be equivalent of an L2 now (L1's are not even hard even for training) with an L4 having L5+ difficulty, and needing a small fleet, that way we could have fun with all the hulls, and even get special module drops for the correct hull types every so often, and also, we get to fleet up in different hull types.

* We already have size limitations mechanics in anomalies and acc gates.
* Apparently mission difficulty scaling is some some sort of numbers based slider thingy and not individual missions messing around (I might be wrong here) and not manually placed everything.
* Based on what happened with the new AI tweak, aggression and aggro distances also seem sliders, as ALL misions were effected.
* Most drops seems on sliders, and the special drops seem to be manually placed "special NPC's", which would only appear at end mission anyway.
* etc etc

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.

Matthew97
#18 - 2013-04-21 11:16:17 UTC
Personally I'd like to see some sort of Dynamic content within missions that happen at random times such as:

You kill a lot of Guristas ships in a series of missions, in another mission there could be a chance that a Guristas Commander (Or something similar) spawns with a defense fleet to try and take you down; it could be a high value BS or maybe contain a faction drop of some kind but it would have to be a very dangerous rat to warrant this extra reward.

Maybe a mission specific dynamic content where if you take to long to do something, or kill rats to fast or just pure "random number generator style" reinforcements could spawn that aren't usually there, maybe they could also be ambushed by another pirate faction? I.e. Mercenaries also attack the Transports?
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2013-04-21 20:08:03 UTC
Cyrus Doul wrote:
Maybe get rid of Materials for War preparation storyline? It would be a little thing but I know i sure "love" having to go buy 8000 kernite in station with the agent every time. Started up mission alts cause bored and figured they might have fixed that after three years.

Actually these are less annoying than "carry extended indy worth of crap over 10 jumps".
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-04-21 23:46:38 UTC
Start by making the trigger random instead of set in stone. If a ship is suppose to call for backup when it die, make all the ship have a % chance of rtigerring that call. That way, you remove the "perfect" way of doing mission because you enver really know when enemy support will come in.
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