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The Heresy: a speculative guide to Under(mine) the New Order (long)
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Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#21 - 2013-04-19 12:46:51 UTC
Quote:
Yes, it is good to make this very clear as the intent. It is not however the basis for the miners decision according to the documentation I have read. The strategy unfolds that.

In addition, for the sake of mayhem who cares? Render the fealty oath meaningless, by removing its presumed value from the lint of view of the user. Easy to do.

Your arguments are for the believers not the subjugated. I am sure they will be effective in that context.

For my own part, I am fully supportive of the New Order in its intent.
no

all miners having paid their permits (or entered New Order territory) are asserting and are understood to have read, completely comprehended and agreed to all writing related to the permit

if they had not read or did not understand the Code or other articles they would not hold a valid permit despite the isk transfer

if they had read the Code and did not agree they would not have bought the permit

all permit holders are therefore true believers in the Code and James 315's New Order of Highsec
Shao Huang
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-04-19 12:56:47 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Quote:
Yes, it is good to make this very clear as the intent. It is not however the basis for the miners decision according to the documentation I have read. The strategy unfolds that.

In addition, for the sake of mayhem who cares? Render the fealty oath meaningless, by removing its presumed value from the lint of view of the user. Easy to do.

Your arguments are for the believers not the subjugated. I am sure they will be effective in that context.

For my own part, I am fully supportive of the New Order in its intent.
no

all miners having paid their permits (or entered New Order territory) are asserting and are understood to have read, completely comprehended and agreed to all writing related to the permit

if they had not read or did not understand the Code or other articles they would not hold a valid permit despite the isk transfer

if they had read the Code and did not agree they would not have bought the permit

all permit holders are therefore true believers in the Code and James 315's New Order of Highsec


Truly, I understand this is the espoused reality. It is not however the lived one, according to the dialogs recorded and displayed. In any case it does not matter. You denigrate the miners, rightly or not. If they fully enact this, the sense of entitlement for instance, your espoused model simply will not matter.

You are arguing as a zealot. It's wonderful. What you are apparently not noticing is that such a strategy involves increased participation and game play at a variety of levels to amplify something that is going to happen over time anyway. You are forcing or attempting to force players to play a way they do not wish. Those that have either found they enjoy that or are suffering it should take full advantage of your wishes and offer. Those that are effected in a way that constitutes resistance or resentment should also use the in-game mechanisms to take full advantage of your offer. May you receive in abundance what you have requested.

Private sig. Do not read.
Shao Huang
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-04-19 13:18:42 UTC
Old Fellow wrote:

Please make a summary I will update this post when your wall of text becomes easier to read, I am old and my eyes hurt


It is likely the case that I am as old or older and it hurt my eyes to type. Apologies.

It is judo. By actually providing a rabid version of what is being demanded and acting on that along all channels of communications the miners can easily alter the game experience of the New Order, render the fealty oath meaningless, raise transactional costs, etc. thus preventing further converts, should they so wish. Doesn't even need to be organized in any centralized way. Shouldn't be in fact. Whether the miners acknowledge it or not they are in a war of cultural conquest. there are many ways to fight such a war. Not all rely on adopting the methods being used against you. In fact that is the least likely to work.

Additionally people should realize that having sworn and displaying an oath does not diminish risk, but actually increases it. This will be acted on simply because it is profitable to do so.

Some miners like this and the conversion. Yay. Some don't. Doesn't matter. Actions could be the same in either case and quite satisfying, should one be moved in that way.

This misses the amusing (to me) language of the Heresy, but is the essential thing itself. I hope this is helpful.

Private sig. Do not read.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#24 - 2013-04-19 13:19:49 UTC
Better plan than all the rhetoric and posturing and stuff...

1. learn how to fly a dessie
2. shoot back.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Shao Huang
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-04-19 13:24:19 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Better plan than all the rhetoric and posturing and stuff...

1. learn how to fly a dessie
2. shoot back.


Personally I agree. Others apparently do not share this view. What I am suggesting is highly active and fully in line with wonderfully grandiose rhetoric and posturing of the New Order itself. It just does not involve shooting back from a dessie for those that don't wish to and more of it for those who do.

Private sig. Do not read.
I Love Boobies
All Hail Boobies
#26 - 2013-04-19 13:27:41 UTC
The New Order Propaganda is more effective than the New Order itself. Seems to be working. I think if everyone just ignored them, they will just quietly shrink off into the sunset. You're just feeding them by posting about them.
Shao Huang
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-04-19 13:29:31 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
The New Order Propaganda is more effective than the New Order itself. Seems to be working. I think if everyone just ignored them, they will just quietly shrink off into the sunset. You're just feeding them by posting about them.


Indeed.

Private sig. Do not read.
Davenchi
C.A.T.F.I.S.H
#28 - 2013-04-19 13:36:52 UTC
Where do these new order tools operate? I would love to set my 8 year old up in thier system and let them have a play date. Would be funny to watch both waste thier time. Big smile
Davenchi
C.A.T.F.I.S.H
#29 - 2013-04-19 13:38:04 UTC
Shao Huang wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
The New Order Propaganda is more effective than the New Order itself. Seems to be working. I think if everyone just ignored them, they will just quietly shrink off into the sunset. You're just feeding them by posting about them.


Indeed.


This is most likely an jimmy alt anyhow.
Shao Huang
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-04-19 13:44:28 UTC
Davenchi wrote:
Shao Huang wrote:
I Love Boobies wrote:
The New Order Propaganda is more effective than the New Order itself. Seems to be working. I think if everyone just ignored them, they will just quietly shrink off into the sunset. You're just feeding them by posting about them.


Indeed.


This is most likely an jimmy alt anyhow.


If you look at my posting history I feel that the sheer ignorance of it is likely to persuade you that not only am I not an alt, I am quite new to the EVErse altogether.

You can find the New Orders basis of operations more or less conveniently indicated on the maps section of minerbump. I think your 8 your old will have a fabulous time.

Private sig. Do not read.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#31 - 2013-04-19 13:53:13 UTC
Davenchi wrote:
Where do these new order tools operate? I would love to set my 8 year old up in thier system and let them have a play date. Would be funny to watch both waste thier time. Big smile

They're generally in Caldari space around the near-Jita ice-fields. Please Fraps any interaction during said "play date" so we can all enjoy the lulz.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
WTFAMILOOKINGAT
Horizon Research Group
#32 - 2013-04-19 13:53:42 UTC
If there's anything the NO has generated it's reams and reams of people talkin' purty tryin' to sound important but in the end is just more words on da pile.
Caviar Liberta
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2013-04-19 13:58:18 UTC
Old Fellow wrote:


Please make a summary I will update this post when your wall of text becomes easier to read, I am old and my eyes hurt



Also another idea might be to record the wall of text to an audio file. Its much easier to listen to an audio recording than to read the WOT (wall of text) on your display.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#34 - 2013-04-19 14:03:30 UTC
I Love Boobies wrote:
The New Order Propaganda is more effective than the New Order itself. Seems to be working. I think if everyone just ignored them, they will just quietly shrink off into the sunset. You're just feeding them by posting about them.



True enough. But at least it reminds us that they are still around to be even further ignored.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2013-04-19 14:05:25 UTC
Shao Huang wrote:
You are arguing as a zealot. It's wonderful. What you are apparently not noticing is that such a strategy involves increased participation and game play at a variety of levels to amplify something that is going to happen over time anyway. You are forcing or attempting to force players to play a way they do not wish. Those that have either found they enjoy that or are suffering it should take full advantage of your wishes and offer. Those that are effected in a way that constitutes resistance or resentment should also use the in-game mechanisms to take full advantage of your offer. May you receive in abundance what you have requested.

Agents have been asking rebel miners to do anything other than jack for months

literally asking for it

the Code never said Agents or Knights would protect miners

bot-aspirants would never go out of their way to even help themselves

and any fantastic scenario involving bot-aspirants doing something (anything) is a New Order victory
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#36 - 2013-04-19 14:21:00 UTC
I'm here to chew popcorn and enjoy the drama. And I'm all out of popcorn Cool
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#37 - 2013-04-19 14:27:08 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
I'm here to chew popcorn and enjoy the drama. And I'm all out of popcorn Cool



The New Order shenanigans are hardly drama. Much more akin to Farce and Satire.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
RandomFlame
Gila Knights
#38 - 2013-04-19 15:22:58 UTC
Whjat you whine about is both novel and new. Stop writing a wall of rubbish. You write rubbish. I hope miners kick your shiny metal...

You are boring.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#39 - 2013-04-19 16:11:48 UTC
Inxentas Ultramar wrote:
I'm here to chew popcorn and enjoy the drama. And I'm all out of popcorn Cool


With the cost of movie theater popcorn slowly approaching the cost of Iridium and printer ink, We can hardly blame you for only purchasing a small.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#40 - 2013-04-19 20:57:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
There's no doubt that the New Order could be broken, but why would you want to do it?
It creates conflict where there is none, a market for both combat and mining stuff, removes wealth from the game, etc. Lets face it highsec would be as boring as watching paint dry if it wasn't for the gankers, wardecs, awoxing and general mayhem that people like the New Order, Skunkworks, Marmite Collective, Goons on holiday and all the other people who like to explode other people create, then there's the market, destruction fuels it.

It could be fun for both sides, if the majority could be arsed to fight back, the minority who have decided to fight back, they're having fun, although a few of them seem to have gone over to the darkside, where they have cookies and plentiful kills.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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