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Should someone have a chance to tackle a PvE'r that is doing everything right?
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Nuela
WoT Misfits
#1 - 2013-04-18 17:27:15 UTC
Not sure how to explain this so let me explain by a story of what happened to me a few days ago.

I belong to an alliance in Null. I do the majority of my isk-making/PvE there. When you do this in Null, there are things you need to do:

- I keep the Intelligence channel open so I can 'see' bad guys coming before they even reach me.
- I have local disconnected from chat and set up right in the MIDDLE of my screen so I am constantly looking at it. This way I can see any non-blue coming into local within seconds.
- I only run PvE in systems where there are friendly POS's to warp to. In addition, I have several, nicely placed far-apart safe spots.
- I am constantly running full speed and aligned. I can warp out instantly.
- When a blue comes into my area and I don't recognise the name as someone a know WELL, I warp off.

So, anyway, There was a particular couple fo guys (non-blue) who I must have offended with my big, smartass mouth and they tried to get me. I didn't really know this at the time - just knew that neuts were around more often. A few days ago I get a convo invite from a nuet and he proceeds to complain bitterly that Eve was 'broken', wrong etc etc etc because a friend of his and him have tried to get me for days. They tried everything he said...even getting an alt into the alliance and try to Awox me.

His point was that Eve should be set up so he had a chance to nab me...even though I was 100% prepared at all times when I PvE'd.

Well, maybe he has a point? I don't think so but maybe? Curious as to what others think.

The main thing that made me decide he probably doesn't have a point is if he should have a chance to nab me even though I took all precautions...shouldn't I have a chance to nab him as well when he is trying to nab me? Even though he is doing all the right things, cloaking, etc shouldn't I have a chance to get him in a way he can do nothing about or should it only apply to PvE'ers?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#2 - 2013-04-18 17:29:41 UTC
Nah. That's the whole point of “doing everything right.”

His failure is not indicative of a broken game.
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#3 - 2013-04-18 17:33:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Nuela
Tippia wrote:
Nah. That's the whole point of “doing everything right.”

His failure is not indicative of a broken game.


Well, yes...but I'm thinking more broad...like local being removed, dscan gimped something that makes it so one CAN'T be perfectly prepared.

Should a predator be able to catch prey in Eve where the Prey is doing everything in his/her power to not be caught or should the Prey have to make a mistake or not be fully cautious?

I think my OP is poorly phrased becuase that is the question I'd like to see what people think.
Erik Kaassan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#4 - 2013-04-18 17:35:00 UTC
The answer to this one is just obvious. The game doesn't take sides.

If he surprises you and turns you into a pile of scrap metal then you were obviously unprepared. If not then he was unprepared. There is no reason you should be punished for playing smarter than him.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#5 - 2013-04-18 17:35:44 UTC
Nuela wrote:
Should a predator be able to catch prey in Eve where the Prey is doing everything in his/her power to not be caught or should the Prey have to make a mistake or not be fully cautious?

If you out-played them, good on you. No use them whining about it.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Merouk Baas
#6 - 2013-04-18 17:36:12 UTC
Tell him:

Well I wasn't 100% prepared, as I left myself vulnerable to receiving your whiny ass convo, so there you go, you got me, with words at least. If your tears were a weapon they'd be a snowball CXV, doing negative damage, but damage nonetheless.

Congrats.

Won't happen again, as you're now on /ignore.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2013-04-18 17:40:33 UTC
He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#8 - 2013-04-18 17:40:37 UTC
They should have just afk cloaked for a week. It'd be worse than ganking you.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Tah'ris Khlador
Space Ghosts.
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#9 - 2013-04-18 17:40:41 UTC
Different tactics for different places.

They need to drive you into making a mistake, not complain that they are terrible and EVE should be nerfed down to their level. Enable AFK Cloaking and logoff tactics. Also, more intelligent AWOX tactics, because clearly they gave up way too soon.

They need to HTFU and put in more effort, or move onto more derpy players.

Member of the Pink Pony Killboard Padding Alliance
Erik Kaassan
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#10 - 2013-04-18 17:42:30 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you.


So they should be punished for using a game provided resource to get a leg up on potential predators? Did I get redirected to the World of Warcrap forums?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#11 - 2013-04-18 17:44:06 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you.

Fortunately, there is a neat strategy to disrupt local and turn it into a weapon against exactly the kind of people the OP represents… Twisted
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#12 - 2013-04-18 17:44:30 UTC
Sounds like they just gave up too early, or left the system too soon . . . like bad hunters.

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Jonasan Mikio
Must Remove Snow Flakes
#13 - 2013-04-18 17:44:53 UTC
Nuela wrote:
Not sure how to explain this so let me explain by a story of what happened to me a few days ago.

I belong to an alliance in Null. I do the majority of my isk-making/PvE there. When you do this in Null, there are things you need to do:

- I keep the Intelligence channel open so I can 'see' bad guys coming before they even reach me.
- I have local disconnected from chat and set up right in the MIDDLE of my screen so I am constantly looking at it. This way I can see any non-blue coming into local within seconds.
- I only run PvE in systems where there are friendly POS's to warp to. In addition, I have several, nicely placed far-apart safe spots.
- I am constantly running full speed and aligned. I can warp out instantly.
- When a blue comes into my area and I don't recognise the name as someone a know WELL, I warp off.

So, anyway, There was a particular couple fo guys (non-blue) who I must have offended with my big, smartass mouth and they tried to get me. I didn't really know this at the time - just knew that neuts were around more often. A few days ago I get a convo invite from a nuet and he proceeds to complain bitterly that Eve was 'broken', wrong etc etc etc because a friend of his and him have tried to get me for days. They tried everything he said...even getting an alt into the alliance and try to Awox me.

His point was that Eve should be set up so he had a chance to nab me...even though I was 100% prepared at all times when I PvE'd.

Well, maybe he has a point? I don't think so but maybe? Curious as to what others think.

The main thing that made me decide he probably doesn't have a point is if he should have a chance to nab me even though I took all precautions...shouldn't I have a chance to nab him as well when he is trying to nab me? Even though he is doing all the right things, cloaking, etc shouldn't I have a chance to get him in a way he can do nothing about or should it only apply to PvE'ers?



Smart carebear is smart, you deserve to live... if you are doing everything right you should be winning.. they MUST be doing something wrong, or they would be winning..

So yes I concur with your post about how you should be winning if you are doing everything right
Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
#14 - 2013-04-18 17:53:44 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you.

Has there ever been a thread about brainstorming ideas intelligence gathering methods in the hypothetical case that local gets removed/nerfed? If not, we definitely need one.

Sovereignty and Population

New Mining Mechanics
Bizzaro Stormy MurphDog
B.L.U.E L.A.S.E.R.
#15 - 2013-04-18 17:54:53 UTC
Abrazzar wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
He does have a point in my opinion. You rely on local which instantly alerts you to any hostiles in system. Neither you or your alliance need to do any work to maintain this free intel tool where as he has to do a lot of work and be lucky to get you.

Has there ever been a thread about brainstorming ideas intelligence gathering methods in the hypothetical case that local gets removed/nerfed? If not, we definitely need one.


Talk to literally any wormhole corp.

I am not an alt of Chribba.
Meytal
Doomheim
#16 - 2013-04-18 17:56:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Meytal
Nuela wrote:
I'm thinking more broad...like local being removed, dscan gimped something that makes it so one CAN'T be perfectly prepared.

Surprisingly enough, the lack of a free Local intel channel isn't the end of the world. It will force you to change your tactics, and you/your allies might have to perform actual intelligence work, but there are many extra possibilities.

Any attacker has no idea whether you are alone or whether you are just bait for a fleet hidden elsewhere; he can't see that Falcon just off-grid who is ready to light a cyno. He can't even see the other cloakies that are on-grid with you. When you want to hunt, you will actually be able to hunt; you can drive out the RMT'ing bots (that aren't part of your alliance) without them knowing you are there. Just think of the bot tears that will rain from the heavens!

I would even suggest that removing the Local intel channel will make life in Null more exciting and encourage people to make friends, playing the game together.

Edit: But yeah, if you do everything right, are prepared, and use all the tools at your disposal better than your opponent, you should succeed. It doesn't matter which end of the gun you face.
Tank Talbot
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#17 - 2013-04-18 18:00:46 UTC
I can do everything right and walk outside of my home and still be shot dead. How REAL do the developers want EVE to feel and how REAL are you willing to accept? I say it's fine. Win some. Lose some.
Lady Ayeipsia
BlueWaffe
#18 - 2013-04-18 18:06:00 UTC
Step 1: add you as a contact on watchlist to know when you are usually only.

Step 2: run locator agents to know what systems you pve in.

Step 3: monitor the evemap statistics in that area to see when the vest time to sneak a force in is.

Step 4: sneak in a known pve haunt when you are offline with combat ships and some good probers.

Step 5: log off, go play on alt accounts that have you on their watch list.

Step 6: whenever you log in, run locator agents.

Step 7: once you seem to busy with pve, send Convo invite as distraction, log in and attempt to trap you.


Optional steps, try to sneak some drag bubbles in.

Not sure what else you could do, but that is probably the best way to try to trap someone. Probably won't work.
Louise Antwoord
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-04-18 18:07:57 UTC
Just remove local !
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#20 - 2013-04-18 18:17:56 UTC
Lady Ayeipsia wrote:
Step 1: add you as a contact on watchlist to know when you are usually only.

Step 2: run locator agents to know what systems you pve in.

Step 3: monitor the evemap statistics in that area to see when the vest time to sneak a force in is.

Step 4: sneak in a known pve haunt when you are offline with combat ships and some good probers.

Step 5: log off, go play on alt accounts that have you on their watch list.

Step 6: whenever you log in, run locator agents.

Step 7: once you seem to busy with pve, send Convo invite as distraction, log in and attempt to trap you.


Optional steps, try to sneak some drag bubbles in.

Not sure what else you could do, but that is probably the best way to try to trap someone. Probably won't work.


The hunter can also keep pushing and trying to get the prey. After some time, there is bound to be a misstake done opening a window to get the target.
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