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[Data Collection - Highsec] I want to hear your words, post them here!

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Author
Temba Ronin
#101 - 2011-11-05 00:33:27 UTC
Velicitia wrote:


Capships are a benefit of low, and supers are a benefit of of null and player sovereignty.


So let me see if i got this right special ships for low and null are good but allowing those ships for defense only in high is bad.

Yes i see the light that is completely fair, after all you pay a higher subscription rate then high sec players ..... wait no you don't ...... well then is must be because most players choose to live in low and null and naturally the best benefits gravitate to the majority .... oh dang i'm wrong again most players are in high sec null and low is just full of the best whiners!

How about a super awesome PVP ship only for high sec? Oh i forgot you don't give a ____ about anybody in high sec unless they are a target.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Temba Ronin
#102 - 2011-11-05 00:37:07 UTC
Velicitia wrote:


Temba Ronin wrote:
So you think it's legit that a suicide gank that destroys an investment of a billion isk should get the harsh punishment of staying docked for a whole 15 minutes while their friends or more likely alt loot the remains of a care bear mining ship yeah that is of equal value how could i have been so blind!


You can always have friends around to scoop the loot ...




So how would that work ...... something like this..... " Hey bill i'm going mining today for a few hours why don't you just hang around to scoop up my salvage when a nice ganker blows up my ship ..... you will, thanks buddy you are the best!"

If your ideas were not so simplistically unworkable they would almost be funny.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2011-11-05 04:03:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Takara Mora
"Oh, but you forget, Eve is a PvP , I mean, Gank game, didn't you know that when you signed up?

Yeah it's 100% Gank, everywhere, all the time .. you just don't know how to play the game if you're not out there Ganking everyone, or being ganked and liking it - it's the only way to play! .... And don't you dare change it -- it'll completely break the game ..

Winning!!!"
Wolodymyr
Breaking Ambitions
#104 - 2011-11-05 07:53:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Wolodymyr
Takara Mora wrote:
Yeah don't care what they do (with hisec customs houses) ... the hisec planets are not worth much ... i bet ppl would mainly stop using them if they become destructable in hisec - there wouldn't be much financial incentive to build/use them, compared to the ease with with gankers would destroy them just for fun.

If people stopped using them then the supply would go down while demand stays the same making PI more profitable.

If people jack up the taxes then then people will charge more for PI, so you'll still make money. (When mineral prices go up, ship and ammo prices go up)

customs offices have reinforce timers and probably structural HP levels so neut ganking is not an option. You can pop a hulk with thrashers before concord gets there but not a structure like a POS. They'll have to wardeck you which gives you a fighting chance at least.

And yes a massive alliance could roll up with more battleships than you have corp members and blob you. But ... sad to say... that's life. If you want to hold something then you need enough power to keep it from others.


Takara Mora wrote:
"Oh, but you forget, Eve is a PvP , I mean, Gank game, didn't you know that when you signed up?

Yeah it's 100% Gank, everywhere, all the time .. you just don't know how to play the game if you're not out there Ganking everyone, or being ganked and liking it - it's the only way to play! .... And don't you dare change it -- it'll completely break the game ..

Winning!!!"

I have had fair fights before, they exist!

And if you are only outnumbered a little bit, like 3/4 or 2/3 if you are a bit more badass. Ultimately if you are better at flying your ship than they are then you can win. Try taking a 10 man gang around lowsec some time it works.

I honestly think PoCo based sov is a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544

Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2011-11-05 15:54:10 UTC
Wolodymyr wrote:
Takara Mora wrote:
Yeah don't care what they do (with hisec customs houses) ... the hisec planets are not worth much ... i bet ppl would mainly stop using them if they become destructable in hisec - there wouldn't be much financial incentive to build/use them, compared to the ease with with gankers would destroy them just for fun.

If people stopped using them then the supply would go down while demand stays the same making PI more profitable.

If people jack up the taxes then then people will charge more for PI, so you'll still make money. (When mineral prices go up, ship and ammo prices go up).


You are right .... that's the theory ... at like 10-15% the PI yield of nullsec tho ... not sure anyone would bother much ... it would definitely add raiding targets for PvP hooligans tho ... so WIN ... I guess? -> not a valid option not to LOVE PvP, right?

Actually I'd say do whatever will attract, keep, and retain new players the most, is what I'd advocate ... would be great to have some solid data one way or the other based on behavioral studies of new players.


Wolodymyr wrote:

I have had fair fights before, they exist!


Yes, I believe you ... and what would be useful, is a better way for new players to actually FIND those fair fights (more so than the normal "a*** ****" ones), before they unsub ...

I've been playing long enough that I personally no longer care (I've got plenty of alts - I just go play something/somewhere else) ... but I hate to see new friends or members leave time and again.
Takara Mora
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#106 - 2011-11-05 15:54:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Takara Mora
Duplicate post, sorry.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#107 - 2011-11-05 17:09:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Velicitia
Temba Ronin wrote:
Velicitia wrote:


Capships are a benefit of low, and supers are a benefit of of null and player sovereignty.


So let me see if i got this right special ships for low and null are good but allowing those ships for defense only in high is bad.

Yes i see the light that is completely fair, after all you pay a higher subscription rate then high sec players ..... wait no you don't ...... well then is must be because most players choose to live in low and null and naturally the best benefits gravitate to the majority .... oh dang i'm wrong again most players are in high sec null and low is just full of the best whiners!

How about a super awesome PVP ship only for high sec? Oh i forgot you don't give a ____ about anybody in high sec unless they are a target.


Let's have a little hypothetical situation.

  • You actually get into a player corp and we dec them over our rightful claim to the ore belts in some system. You try avoiding it by sitting in station (sidenote, not necessarily a bad thing to NOT give the other guys kills)
  • We find your poorly-defended tower in hisec
  • We get a gang together (10 pilots or less) and decide to shoot at the POS.
  • You bring a triage carrier out and soak all the DPS we can lay down.
  • We'd LOVE to bring our dreads ... but can't ... because it's not "defence"


How is that fair to us?

Now, if you would have taken the four seconds it takes to pull up a pilot's corp history, you would see that I have lived in corporations that are primarily NOT combat-oriented. Hell, after nearly 4.5 years of playing, I still have embarrassingly bad combat-related skills. Sure, I have a corp here or there that had a good bit of combat involved (even did a stint in nullsec) ...

My only recorded kill(s) are against war targets, and have been stupid lucky. I don't seek out fights (or even ganks); and am perfectly content to keep things that way.


As for my comment about having friends around. I never said that you should have someone babysitting you in a belt -- only the implication that you can bring friends along too. Or, put another way -- get into a good corporation and actually work with your corp-mates.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Temba Ronin
#108 - 2011-11-05 17:26:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Temba Ronin
Velicitia wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
Velicitia wrote:


Capships are a benefit of low, and supers are a benefit of of null and player sovereignty.


So let me see if i got this right special ships for low and null are good but allowing those ships for defense only in high is bad.

Yes i see the light that is completely fair, after all you pay a higher subscription rate then high sec players ..... wait no you don't ...... well then is must be because most players choose to live in low and null and naturally the best benefits gravitate to the majority .... oh dang i'm wrong again most players are in high sec null and low is just full of the best whiners!

How about a super awesome PVP ship only for high sec? Oh i forgot you don't give a ____ about anybody in high sec unless they are a target.


Let's have a little hypothetical situation.

  • You actually get into a player corp and we dec them over our rightful claim to the ore belts in some system. You try avoiding it by sitting in station (sidenote, not necessarily a bad thing to NOT give the other guys kills)[/*]
  • We find your poorly-defended tower in hisec[/*]
  • We get a gang together (10 pilots or less) and decide to shoot at the POS.[/*]
  • You bring a triage carrier out and soak all the DPS we can lay down. [/*]
  • We'd LOVE to bring our dreads ... but can't ... because it's not "defence"[/*]


How is that fair to us?


Fair to you because of the mythical risk versus reward mantra that permeates New Eden. Because you and your 10 pals believe a POS is poorly defended you feel entitled to be able to destroy it, who promised you that? You don't want Risk vs Reward you want a guaranteed win. You researched the hypothetical little corp and thought it a quick easy target you were wrong boo hoo!

Yes you can't bring in your dreads because you are the aggressor ..... but fear not after wiping the floor with your 10 pilot gang i'm sure the war dec over the rightful claim to the ore belts will visit your POS in short order after your initial defeat while your pilots are in disarray if you are facing a competent opponent .... then you might get to use your big guns in defense as the fairness needle swings back to you.

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Velicitia
XS Tech
#109 - 2011-11-05 17:46:21 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:
Velicitia wrote:


Capships are a benefit of low, and supers are a benefit of of null and player sovereignty.


So let me see if i got this right special ships for low and null are good but allowing those ships for defense only in high is bad.

Yes i see the light that is completely fair, after all you pay a higher subscription rate then high sec players ..... wait no you don't ...... well then is must be because most players choose to live in low and null and naturally the best benefits gravitate to the majority .... oh dang i'm wrong again most players are in high sec null and low is just full of the best whiners!

How about a super awesome PVP ship only for high sec? Oh i forgot you don't give a ____ about anybody in high sec unless they are a target.


Let's have a little hypothetical situation.

  • You actually get into a player corp and we dec them over our rightful claim to the ore belts in some system. You try avoiding it by sitting in station (sidenote, not necessarily a bad thing to NOT give the other guys kills)
  • We find your poorly-defended tower in hisec
  • We get a gang together (10 pilots or less) and decide to shoot at the POS.
  • You bring a triage carrier out and soak all the DPS we can lay down.
  • We'd LOVE to bring our dreads ... but can't ... because it's not "defence"


How is that fair to us?


Fair to you because of the mythical risk versus reward mantra that permeates New Eden. Because you and your 10 pals believe a POS is poorly defended you feel entitled to be able to destroy it, who promised you that? You don't want Risk vs Reward you want a guaranteed win. You researched the hypothetical little corp and thought it a quick easy target you were wrong boo hoo!

I never said it would be "quick" nor "easy", just that it was poorly defended.
POS are a pain to take down no matter where you are ... doubly so in hisec when you can't bring in big guns.

Temba Ronin wrote:

Yes you can't bring in your dreads because you are the aggressor ..... but fear not after wiping the floor with your 10 pilot gang i'm sure the war dec over the rightful claim to the ore belts will visit your POS in short order after your initial defeat while your pilots are in disarray if you are facing a competent opponent .... then you might get to use your big guns in defense as the fairness needle swings back to you.


So you can bring caps to "defend" your POS... but I can't bring caps to "defend" my fleet?

How is allowing caps on one side and denying caps on the other "fair"?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Ronan Connor
#110 - 2011-11-06 11:34:59 UTC
Takara Mora wrote:
"Oh, but you forget, Eve is a PvP , I mean, Gank game, didn't you know that when you signed up?

Yeah it's 100% Gank, everywhere, all the time .. you just don't know how to play the game if you're not out there Ganking everyone, or being ganked and liking it - it's the only way to play! .... And don't you dare change it -- it'll completely break the game ..

Winning!!!"

It was designed as pure PvP. The game has changed. Didnt you notice that CCP is in financial trouble? Thats not just because of Incarna. Its that the paying masses of 75% high sec players are fed up of beeing ganked.
http://www.evenews24.com/2011/10/28/poetic-discourse-russian-roulette-ccp-vs-goonswarm/
https://twitter.com/#!/HilmarVeigar/status/121912148896137216

CCP needs starter player to keep the money flow. Player / play styles shifted. CCP now has to adapt.
Lord Zim
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2011-11-06 12:12:18 UTC
Well, that article certainly isn't filled with assumptions and tinfoil.

Cyno's lit, bridge is up, but one pilot won't be jumping home.

RIP Vile Rat

Velicitia
XS Tech
#112 - 2011-11-06 13:08:07 UTC
On the upside, you can profit greatly from assumptions and tinfoil Twisted

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia

Cordo Draken
ABOS Industrial Enterprises
#113 - 2011-11-07 08:42:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Cordo Draken
Temba Ronin wrote:
It is always so cute when posters with infantile arguments call someone else a twelve year old! Almost as cutesy as their weak and idiotic assumptions that anyone having an opinion different from their own must be licking the wounds of numerous defeats because of poor game playing skills.

I have never lost a ship to another human player on any of my accounts and i have never been podded on any of my accounts with just under 8 months of game play that is nothing spectacular but it does make moot all the phony assumptions that my positions are derived from wanting to get pay back for being ganked. 

I did get my ship blown up by Concord as a newbie because i shot a wreck instead of a rat. Also when relatively new i was told it was safe to go to the asteroid belts during an incursion, the Sansha taught me otherwise. I quickly lost a well rigged industrial ship and the even better rigged cruiser i foolishly sought to salvage the  first wreck with. Needless to say the rapid loss of 2 ships to the Sansha was a lesson i paid to learn lol. I lost a Brutix to Sleepers but I am addicted to Sleeper loot so i have made that isk back many times over in many different wormholes.

I don't afk pilot, i use cloaky haulers and/ or an orca or freighter to haul valuable cargo from low sec to trading hubs (no i don't use the orca or the freighter in the low sec segments of any cargo haul). I have good skill training in warp drive operations, i use warp stabs, and the rigs that get my slowest ships to warp as soon as possible. As a noob i use to industrial mine in an IItty so i learned to stay aligned to jump points and tank with the best of them. I watch d-scan and am aware when someone starts to use probes in any system i occupy. I watch local and have trained all my alts minimally to use cloaking devices an i spend time scouting routes in cov-ops ships to establish safe spots and non-direct routes to gates for emergency exits.

I have to ask you Cordo are you projecting your PVP fails upon someone who has none out of ignorance or lack of intellectual capacity?

Yes i think the penalty for ganking is no penalty at all, i also think that the bounty system is broken and no Cordo i don't think that because someone placed a big bounty on me. Some people playing this game have these things called independent thoughts and ideas they hope might improve the game. 

Cordo you don't have to agree with all of them or in your case even understand them but the forums are the place in this game where players can get their ideas and thoughts vetted by other players with the intellectual capacity to analyze statements and make superior counter arguments, sort of intelligence PVP.  Cordo you are a shuttle facing down a Titan in this match of intelligence PVP all your incorrect assumptions totally FAIL!


Look Dude, you're really barking up the wrong tree with your own assumption in regards to fail, and you're not the first carebear to think he was intellectually special and expect special courtesy on the forums or in game. Your simple pot shots of wit you think are so clever gains you nothing.

Since you've misunderstood as others have tried to make you understand, is that this game is PvP focused. It has freedoms unlike any other game. It never once proclaims itself a place where we can all get along. They wanted the space is a cold unforgiving place that you can do anything... Survive, adapt, endure, profit. Out courtesy for newcomers, many "warnings" and tutorials were placed to teach and make players aware.

I could really care less about your lack of experience... Yet, those with such little experience can't possibly expect a game that's been around so long to up and change many long standing game mechanics just for a certain unexperienced player cause, "his opinion is far more intellectually advanced." Really? You don't just need a "Welcome to Eve" line insert here... I add, "Welcome to reallity." When you produce something with actual thought behind it for a benefit to gameplay of everyone, I'll give you a listen. So far, for someone that professes intellect, you certainly are narrow minded.

P.s. I would hardly call my record PvP fail... So, keep an eye out on local. Cheers dude :-)

Whomever said, "You only get one shot to make a good impression," was utterly wrong. I've made plenty of great impressions with my Autocannons 

NGTM1R
Schrodinger's Labs
#114 - 2011-11-07 08:43:30 UTC
Ronan Connor wrote:
CCP needs starter player to keep the money flow. Player / play styles shifted. CCP now has to adapt.


CCP makes money off people who hear about 1000+ battles and sov fights and people collapsing alliances with spies, not people who hear about mining or running missions while reading a book.

Night

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#115 - 2011-11-07 14:08:02 UTC
My thoughts on hi-sec are here.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Max Flipper
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#116 - 2011-11-07 14:57:09 UTC
Temba Ronin wrote:

Fair to you because of the mythical risk versus reward mantra that permeates New Eden. Because you and your 10 pals believe a POS is poorly defended you feel entitled to be able to destroy it, who promised you that? You don't want Risk vs Reward you want a guaranteed win. You researched the hypothetical little corp and thought it a quick easy target you were wrong boo hoo!

Yes you can't bring in your dreads because you are the aggressor ..... but fear not after wiping the floor with your 10 pilot gang i'm sure the war dec over the rightful claim to the ore belts will visit your POS in short order after your initial defeat while your pilots are in disarray if you are facing a competent opponent .... then you might get to use your big guns in defense as the fairness needle swings back to you.


The award for the biggest retard in this thread clearly goes to you.


Overall besides the flaws the have been pointed out over and over which need fixing Empire could profit a lot from making it more Dynamic.
Incursions are a Great Example, they are not fixed in an Location and encourage Interaction/Rivalry between Players. Their only Downside is probably that the rewards are too High compared to the Risks but thats not the Topic.

The idea someone posted about granting Rights for various things in a System to Corporations or Alliances sounds like an Incredible good idea if implemented well. A thing like this would probably work even better for Faction Warfare.
It would add a player driven dynamic of which few enough currently exist in Highsec.
But then thats currently one of the few things that draws people into 0.0 so if that comes to HS/LS as well thats one less reason for people to go into 0.0



Temba Ronin
#117 - 2011-11-07 16:51:24 UTC
Cordo Draken wrote:


P.s. I would hardly call my record PvP fail... So, keep an eye out on local. Cheers dude :-)

After reviewing you PVP record I would certainly not call it Fail, impressive number of SOLO kills which in my small mind is what demonstrates superior game play when compared to most who whine the loudest here in the forums.

When I research them i see 10 to 20 people involved in the vast majority of their kills, even 2 people to pod a capsule! You I will keep an eye out for in local i'd be stupid not to, but to the others who need 7, 8, or 9 of their swarm around ..... they are no threat because i'd notice them long before they could rally the courage to do anything. I just have no respect for cowards an i openly admit it.

I hope we have many good fights Cordo and that I eventually eek out a slight advantage in the you vs me! Pirate

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Temba Ronin
#118 - 2011-11-07 16:58:20 UTC
Max Flipper wrote:
Temba Ronin wrote:

Fair to you because of the mythical risk versus reward mantra that permeates New Eden. Because you and your 10 pals believe a POS is poorly defended you feel entitled to be able to destroy it, who promised you that? You don't want Risk vs Reward you want a guaranteed win. You researched the hypothetical little corp and thought it a quick easy target you were wrong boo hoo!

Yes you can't bring in your dreads because you are the aggressor ..... but fear not after wiping the floor with your 10 pilot gang i'm sure the war dec over the rightful claim to the ore belts will visit your POS in short order after your initial defeat while your pilots are in disarray if you are facing a competent opponent .... then you might get to use your big guns in defense as the fairness needle swings back to you.


The award for the biggest retard in this thread clearly goes to you.


I want to thank the academy for this award .... having it presented to me by the person is was named after made it so much more special!

The Best Ship In EVE Online Is "Friendship", Power To The Players!

Ronan Connor
#119 - 2011-11-07 18:39:29 UTC
NGTM1R wrote:
Ronan Connor wrote:
CCP needs starter player to keep the money flow. Player / play styles shifted. CCP now has to adapt.


CCP makes money off people who hear about 1000+ battles and sov fights and people collapsing alliances with spies, not people who hear about mining or running missions while reading a book.

No, those are highly specialized characters with month/years of training. But CCP is condemned to grow and that you can do only if you dont concentrate on one type of player.
Mining or running missions sounds boring to one, but for some player who cant commit themselfs for more then 3-4 hrs/week thats all they can afford.
Its like in politics. With 5000 people you maybe can have a very strict opinion of something. If you grow and have now 5.000.000 people's needs to you have groups of different interests and you need to find a common program.
Dyvim Slorm
Coven of the Morrigan
#120 - 2011-11-07 19:14:44 UTC
A few points though most have already been mentioned

Wardecs - really need sorting out since the GM's have walked away from the issue
Missions - needs more variety and branching storylines
Insurance - it's absurd that it's paid for criminal acts, anyone killed by Concord should forfeit payment
Stock Exchange - iirc CCP looked at this in the early days though nothing exver came of it.
Bounties - sellable kill rights or private contract for a pod kill
Smuggling - high risk/reward might help bring some life back to lowsec

Lowsec in the early days used have a number of communities (like villages almost) set up in small pockets and the corps/players would keep their area clean of pirates (or sometime the reverse if set up by pirates). Perhaps space is too crowded now to make this work and cap fleets can quickly roll over any opposition.

The lowsec problem is that if it’s made too lucrative the nullsec alliances will simply expand their boundaries on the other hand if it’s not profitable enough why should anyone from highsec go there (except for pvp). Perhaps as an experiment some lowsec systems could have a permanent cyno jammer in place to tempt some smaller corps to set up operations.