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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Remove corp friendly fire [in high sec]
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Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
#121 - 2013-04-18 18:22:10 UTC
One of the best reasons why not to do this?...


EVE's controls are *not* the most responsive.

Occasionally, I have fleetmates locked up and dragged to a lower bar, and hostiles on the upper target bar. When missioning and not under fire, I will often support a fleetmates tank with the remote reps I keep on my ship for the drones. That little bit will often mean the extra few seconds he can stay on the feild while we reduce DPS to manageable levels and not have every member of the fleet overtanked and cutting our DPS.

Sometimes, while I am murdering frigates with a flight of light drones I will run out of targets while concentrating on something else. I wll lock a new target, click to select it and press Fire or tell my drones to attack, only to realize that the click didn't take on my new target, and my drones or weapons are now happily murdering my much lower skill point buddies.

It would suck to be CONCORDOKKENED for this 'offense'. At best, any change should produce a pop up on the part of the attacked asking if they want to summon assistance.
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#122 - 2013-04-18 18:34:32 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Noobs these days are either refused entry to decent corps due to paranoia, or lured into griefer corps and popped. They then let their sub expire, either from boredom in npc corp or from rage of being popped and podded by corpmates, even though the value comes to like a mil isk.

This rarely happened in the early years of Eve, and when it does it's hailed as rare moments of lol. Nowadays it's everyday occurrence, and not worth talking about.

It's one of these emergent gameplay aspects, botting among them, that's ruining the game as well as hurting CCP's bottom line, once they became widespread. Time to fix it.


I'd like to see some evidence of this. AFAIK subscriptions have been on an upward trend. If what you write above is true, then we'd expect to see stagnant subs or even declining.

What is your evidence for this? Aside from some anecdotes that is.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Teckos Pech
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#123 - 2013-04-18 18:42:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Teckos Pech
sabre906 wrote:
Goons offer to haul your stuff, all 2 mil isk worth of it...Lol


Speak not of what you are ignorant of. He was talking about Goon noobs. Those guys get treated quite well. I routinely see pings on jabber about something amusing some goon newbie asked in fleet and that we should all send that player isk. Such players often get quite a bit of isk. I've seen the same thing with TEST as well. One I recall a guy lost a ratting ship, nothing outrageously expensive, but the ping went out and he soon had enough to buy 10 such ships.

So not all noobs get a crap experience and quit. I'm sure some do...but this is Eve...that's the way it goes sometimes.

"The curious task of economics is to demonstrate to men how little they really know about what they imagine they can design."--Friedrich August von Hayek

8 Golden Rules for EVE Online
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#124 - 2013-04-18 19:22:24 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Legitimate gameplay is not bullying.

I'm honestly at a loss as to how you could think that. I'm not called a bully if I win a hand of poker and you lose some money. I'm not called a bully if I take your rook.


Realize, we live in an age that celebrates mediocrity. People go through graduation ceremonies for passing the second grade. You get medals just for jogging in the race, irregardless of when you finish.

There are two definitions of bully you must contend with:

Yes, you can bully people while playing poker. You don't do it by "winning the hand", you do it by your pattern of bets, usually by constantly putting psychological pressure on your opponent. Same goes for chess, and many other games out there. This form of bullying is NOT a bad thing... it's just a "style" of gameplay that has been labeled bullying because it involves putting pressure on someone with the idea they crack and make a mistake. It's a form of intimidation that's still within Legitimate game play.

In contrast, Bullying with a capital B is something quite different in nature. Both bullying and Bullying use intimidation and psychological pressure to get what you want, but Bullying is much more malevolent in essence, partially with a goal of hurting another person to satisfy some psychological need. People are taught that this element of malevolence is an important identifier of Bullying, and so its very hard for people to distinguish where the line is in EvE, a game that not only incorporates bullying (small b), but encourages it with character-to-character malevolence.

I do not support removing AWOXing, wardecs, suicide ganks, etc... but I can understand why people incorrectly call it Bullying.
Li Mu'Bai
Absurdity of Abstractions
#125 - 2013-04-18 20:52:16 UTC
I totally TL;DR'd the thread, but I get the jist of the discussion here.

Corp combat serves a purpose for the fact that often times, corpmates engage in combat with one another to test tank, small gang practice fights, and general fun when your buddy undocks a cruiser from station and you test your new 1400's.

The only reason I could see removing it is for people too lazy to run proper corporate security. If one person can get into your corporation and legitimately threaten your infrastructure by shooting your ships, you are running security wrong. A PvP corp will laugh at an awoxer who gets in their ranks and turn him inside out nine times out of ten. It only benefits those in highsec anyway, and a limited percentage of the population there.

Besides, if you remove it, you canno longer turn someone inside out who actually is a real threat to you. Some guy steals the corp orca? Torch the ****** and make him take the lossmail for it. Can't do that under your system, you just watch him sail away in your shiny boat.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#126 - 2013-04-19 00:35:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
StrongSmartSexy wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
both AWOXers and the victim are free to use logistics. and making the logistics go suspect would mean that the victim cannot use logistics without it going suspect also, and who is more likely to bring friends to take out said logistics?

Except that the AWOXing only ever really happens when the victim does not have access to logistic support at the time or at all. Also, if the victim happened to have logi at the time, chances are it's in the same corporation as well which allows the AWOXer free reign to destroy it too.
Meanwhile, AWOXers always use neutral RR which does not receive any flags when assisting.

The problem is crimewatch - and I keep repeating this in many threads because it invariably leads to this point.
Crimewatch is not sophisticated enough. Ideally, aggression between corp members should generate a unique type of flag (on both the attacker and the victim) that causes any player, outside of the corp, providing remote assistance to either person, to become suspect.
This would get rid of the remaining risk-free neutral RR gameplay in high sec.


so even if the awoxers logi goes suspect, is the victim going to shoot it in his bling fit raven? is the noob getting awoxed going to be able to do anything about the logi? is anyone who has ever been caught by an awoxer going to have any chance of killing the logi? and is he going to have the time to call back up to kill the logi? of course not. theres not really any point in flagging them, cause there is pretty much **** all u can do about it anyways.

The victim is dead the moment the allow themselves to be targeted, kinda like freighters. the victim has overlooked, or done something wrong in order to be in a position they can be AWOXed or ganked in the first place. the solution to the problem lies in fixing the victims mistakes prior to the AWOXing or ganking.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#127 - 2013-04-19 13:50:04 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
StrongSmartSexy wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:
both AWOXers and the victim are free to use logistics. and making the logistics go suspect would mean that the victim cannot use logistics without it going suspect also, and who is more likely to bring friends to take out said logistics?

Except that the AWOXing only ever really happens when the victim does not have access to logistic support at the time or at all. Also, if the victim happened to have logi at the time, chances are it's in the same corporation as well which allows the AWOXer free reign to destroy it too.
Meanwhile, AWOXers always use neutral RR which does not receive any flags when assisting.

The problem is crimewatch - and I keep repeating this in many threads because it invariably leads to this point.
Crimewatch is not sophisticated enough. Ideally, aggression between corp members should generate a unique type of flag (on both the attacker and the victim) that causes any player, outside of the corp, providing remote assistance to either person, to become suspect.
This would get rid of the remaining risk-free neutral RR gameplay in high sec.


so even if the awoxers logi goes suspect, is the victim going to shoot it in his bling fit raven? is the noob getting awoxed going to be able to do anything about the logi? is anyone who has ever been caught by an awoxer going to have any chance of killing the logi? and is he going to have the time to call back up to kill the logi? of course not. theres not really any point in flagging them, cause there is pretty much **** all u can do about it anyways.

The victim is dead the moment the allow themselves to be targeted, kinda like freighters. the victim has overlooked, or done something wrong in order to be in a position they can be AWOXed or ganked in the first place. the solution to the problem lies in fixing the victims mistakes prior to the AWOXing or ganking.


I believe I agree. The problem is, the person chose to be a victim, by fitting a ship impractical for anything other than NPC's, or not having friends along to guard that really expensive freighter load.

They chose to be the victim.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2013-04-19 14:48:19 UTC
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:
i propose:

the removal of the ability for corp members to shoot eachother, without entering a duel, in high sec, without concord interfierence.

with the new duel system, is there any need for it to remain

it only causes issues such as it being risky to bring people into a corp, and has also been used by experienced players to lure newbies in just to be killed....

can anyone give me a reason why it SHOULD stay?

/KoS


Yes there are good reasons for having this. Most of them being group, gang and corp related vs soloist mindsets.

Have someone step AFK for an emergency or other "excuse" and not come back while your gang/fleet sits there waiting. The only way to get rid of a "free kill" to your war targets is to pop them.

Have someone not follow instructions on a gang/fleet op where it endangers the entire group. Call primary and the problem is solved. Can't shoot them? Watch as they mess up your entire operation.

Corp theft, revoke roles - great. Now how do you get them to dock up so you can kick them? AFK cloaking gets to be a pain this way but it is possible to nail them if you prep for it. Your system removes this option entirely, leaving only a /petition with a prayer if they don't dock up. They can shadow you around in a heavily tanked battleship laughing and there's nothing you can do about it.

The uni uses this ability all the time to run "noob FFA battles" - where ship/fitting limits are setup and pilots go in and fight other members - group vs group or fully FFA style. These usually have prizes for the winner(s). This also gives us a nice snicker when "corp level bounties" are put on us being as such events also pay out such bouties to corp members as they practice/learn how to PvP at these events.

There are dozens of *GROUP* related situations in the game that can mandate popping a friendly such as the above.

There are good reasons for this and removal would simply open up another can of worms that could easily be far nastier than the occasional "grief the newbie" stunts that currently happen. Yes these do happen but you can usually address that easier than a lot of other things that come up.
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#129 - 2013-04-19 16:12:08 UTC
Did you ever had a director role in a corp?

Sometimes, even in hi-sec, there is a betrayal possibility from a corp member. This attitude must be punished instantly. By killing the ship, the pod and removing the corp roles.

Other times wen someone refuses to cooperate and/or disobey, you have to kill his ship.

Example: TS use reinforce rule. "If you are not in TS and we find it, and you don't respond to the corp chat whille you are doing any kind of activity, we put a point on you, we count 10 seconds, and if no response we kill, we report to CCP and we expel from corp for BOT use."

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Tsobai Hashimoto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#130 - 2013-04-20 18:20:11 UTC
First thing that came to my mind was abusing Smartbombs, how much easier is to to run a firewall if my Smartbombs dont hurt my corp mates?

a crap ton easier :-P