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Remove corp friendly fire [in high sec]
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Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2013-04-17 03:17:03 UTC
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I think it's also important to note that new players are not children, in fact they are typically grown-ass men and that this is a computer game, not real life, nothing bad happens if you lose a spaceship.

They don't need protecting from anything. It's the game that needs protecting from people like the terrible OP who'd diminish its richness in the name of "protecting new players."



Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#42 - 2013-04-17 03:36:26 UTC
Ruze wrote:

Hell, you could do micro-wars between consenting corporations even if they aren't in the same alliance.


I assume you mean two corps in separate alliances. In which case, that too would be interesting and fun.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2013-04-17 03:40:10 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I think it's also important to note that new players are not children, in fact they are typically grown-ass men and that this is a computer game, not real life, nothing bad happens if you lose a spaceship.

They don't need protecting from anything. It's the game that needs protecting from people like the terrible OP who'd diminish its richness in the name of "protecting new players."


You seem to think trial rookies "cry" or "whine" when their internet spaceship goes puff. They don't. In fact, it usually matters less to them than to you. They just aren't invested enough in Eve yet, to stay in the game.

If they get grieved early on and don't think this community's worth their free time, they'll leave. Which is the whole point for everything CCP has ever implemented to "protect the children." Precisely because they don't care... yet.Roll
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#44 - 2013-04-17 05:48:54 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I think it's also important to note that new players are not children, in fact they are typically grown-ass men and that this is a computer game, not real life, nothing bad happens if you lose a spaceship.

They don't need protecting from anything. It's the game that needs protecting from people like the terrible OP who'd diminish its richness in the name of "protecting new players."


You seem to think trial rookies "cry" or "whine" when their internet spaceship goes puff. They don't. In fact, it usually matters less to them than to you. They just aren't invested enough in Eve yet, to stay in the game.

If they get grieved early on and don't think this community's worth their free time, they'll leave. Which is the whole point for everything CCP has ever implemented to "protect the children." Precisely because they don't care... yet.Roll


They are protected on a lot of ways. They are protected from most attacks by NPC ships that are unavoidable. They are often in NPC corporations that can't be war-dec'd. They have very little to offer the vast swaths of griefers and thieves in the world. Even the newbie systems are watched extra hard for can-flipping and false duels, etc.

So what else do you do to make a rookie feel safe? Make them invulnerable, safties permanently on for a month? Give them a million popups every time they try to do something stupid?

And how long should they stay a rookie? So much is already in place to keep them safer ...



Personally, I think this mentality unfairly puts them in a position where the inevitable betrayal and 'reality of EvE' is even worse. Better to learn it quickly, and ween out those who wouldn't have really enjoyed the game eventually anyhow. So many of them come back, remembering that horrible experience. I, myself, was rookie ganked on my first toon in what is now a historic event, back when concord was tankable. I came back later, remembering that.

Honestly, if they want pure subscriptions, they can do a LOT to bring them in. But EvE, despite how mean it is to the poor little peon, has continued to grow for years.

Meanwhile, those companies that built for money? World of Warcraft, Warhammer, Star Wars The Old Republic, etc? NONE of them can say the same, that they have continued to build on their playerbase EVERY SINGLE YEAR of their production.

CCP isn't broke off this game. So sure, they could make more money. Obviously. But is it worth it to lose what you have and eventually everything?



These players are crying for one ... little ... change. But they aren't the only one's crying. And while they might end up perfectly happy if they get their way, someone else won't be. How far down that road do you go?

And why fix what ain't broke?

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Keeper O'Secrets
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2013-04-17 06:11:34 UTC
Ruze wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I think it's also important to note that new players are not children, in fact they are typically grown-ass men and that this is a computer game, not real life, nothing bad happens if you lose a spaceship.

They don't need protecting from anything. It's the game that needs protecting from people like the terrible OP who'd diminish its richness in the name of "protecting new players."


You seem to think trial rookies "cry" or "whine" when their internet spaceship goes puff. They don't. In fact, it usually matters less to them than to you. They just aren't invested enough in Eve yet, to stay in the game.

If they get grieved early on and don't think this community's worth their free time, they'll leave. Which is the whole point for everything CCP has ever implemented to "protect the children." Precisely because they don't care... yet.Roll


They are protected on a lot of ways. They are protected from most attacks by NPC ships that are unavoidable. They are often in NPC corporations that can't be war-dec'd. They have very little to offer the vast swaths of griefers and thieves in the world. Even the newbie systems are watched extra hard for can-flipping and false duels, etc.

So what else do you do to make a rookie feel safe? Make them invulnerable, safties permanently on for a month? Give them a million popups every time they try to do something stupid?

And how long should they stay a rookie? So much is already in place to keep them safer ...



Personally, I think this mentality unfairly puts them in a position where the inevitable betrayal and 'reality of EvE' is even worse. Better to learn it quickly, and ween out those who wouldn't have really enjoyed the game eventually anyhow. So many of them come back, remembering that horrible experience. I, myself, was rookie ganked on my first toon in what is now a historic event, back when concord was tankable. I came back later, remembering that.

Honestly, if they want pure subscriptions, they can do a LOT to bring them in. But EvE, despite how mean it is to the poor little peon, has continued to grow for years.

Meanwhile, those companies that built for money? World of Warcraft, Warhammer, Star Wars The Old Republic, etc? NONE of them can say the same, that they have continued to build on their playerbase EVERY SINGLE YEAR of their production.

CCP isn't broke off this game. So sure, they could make more money. Obviously. But is it worth it to lose what you have and eventually everything?



These players are crying for one ... little ... change. But they aren't the only one's crying. And while they might end up perfectly happy if they get their way, someone else won't be. How far down that road do you go?

And why fix what ain't broke?


this proposed change would make noobies a bit safer and griefiers pissed off.... another reason why i still support it :)
Infiltrator2112
Untitled Goose Corporation
#46 - 2013-04-17 06:46:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Infiltrator2112
Bad idea, if you acceppt someone into your corp you always take a risk, that´s how it is and that´s how it should be.

You can do a quite a few things to minimize the risk(API-Check, KBs, forums, common sense, etc....) that it´s his intention to harm your corp, but it should never be risk free. If you acceppt him, you trust him, and trust = risk in EVE.
If you join a corp it´s the same thing vice-versa.

Also, freighter-webbing.
Keeper O'Secrets
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2013-04-17 07:34:32 UTC
Infiltrator2112 wrote:
Bad idea, if you acceppt someone into your corp you always take a risk, that´s how it is and that´s how it should be.

You can do a quite a few things to minimize the risk(API-Check, KBs, forums, common sense, etc....) that it´s his intention to harm your corp, but it should never be risk free. If you acceppt him, you trust him, and trust = risk in EVE.
If you join a corp it´s the same thing vice-versa.

Also, freighter-webbing.


duel system allows for freighter webbing :)

and this post is less about people joining and ruining your day, but more aimed at the griefier arseholes that abuse the current system to gank noobs who they get to join their corp, so they can attack them.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#48 - 2013-04-17 07:44:37 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
lmfao at the flat out lies that it is used against "newbies"

How come whenever someone has a problem with a mechanic they lie and pretend it affects primarily or only newbies when very, very clear it doesn't?

No one joins a corp to awox a 2 week old character in a cruiser, they awox older players in very expensive ships that take a lot of time and isk to invest in.

So don't bloody pretend this is about protecting newbies, it's about protecting old players who are lazy, stupid and all round bad at eve.
Dave Stark
#49 - 2013-04-17 07:45:34 UTC
this is why my orca pilot will never join a corp.
no way i'm trusting internet peoples to be around an orca they can shoot whenever they please.

having said that, it shouldn't be removed as a game mechanic.
Dave Stark
#50 - 2013-04-17 07:46:17 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
lmfao at the flat out lies that it is used against "newbies"

How come whenever someone has a problem with a mechanic they lie and pretend it affects primarily or only newbies when it is very, very clear it doesn't?

No one joins a corp to awox a 2 week old character in a cruiser, they awox older players in very expensive ships that take a lot of time and isk to invest in.

So don't bloody pretend this is about protecting newbies, it's about protecting old players who are lazy, stupid and all round bad at eve.


it's malcanis' law at it's finest.
Keeper O'Secrets
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2013-04-17 07:56:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Keeper O'Secrets
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
lmfao at the flat out lies that it is used against "newbies"

How come whenever someone has a problem with a mechanic they lie and pretend it affects primarily or only newbies when it is very, very clear it doesn't?

No one joins a corp to awox a 2 week old character in a cruiser, they awox older players in very expensive ships that take a lot of time and isk to invest in.

So don't bloody pretend this is about protecting newbies, it's about protecting old players who are lazy, stupid and all round bad at eve.


100% proof that you are wrong....

check ur inbox... kill mail that started me off on this rant is in there

tip: dont assume we are all lieing out of our arses....

anyone else wants the km ask... [unless there is a way to link it here, but its not my kill or loss so i really cba...]
StoneCold
Decadence.
RAZOR Alliance
#52 - 2013-04-17 08:30:23 UTC
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:


[...]
can anyone give me a reason why it SHOULD stay?


The reason is:
EvE is run by corporation. The corporation has to care for the security. Check the applicant and / or the corp you´re joining.
It´s pretty easy to be rather save then sorry.

And NO - you can´t get 100% risk free bling bling ship action.

My true stories
Mag's
Azn Empire
#53 - 2013-04-17 10:03:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:
still waiting for a reason why it should be kept....
You've yet to provide a valid reason why it should be removed. Eve is a cold harsh universe and should remain so.

Also, this.
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I think it's also important to note that new players are not children, in fact they are typically grown-ass men and that this is a computer game, not real life, nothing bad happens if you lose a spaceship.

They don't need protecting from anything. It's the game that needs protecting from people like the terrible OP who'd diminish its richness in the name of "protecting new players."

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2013-04-17 10:12:22 UTC
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:

still waiting for a reason why it should be kept....


I like being able to web my freighters into warp

...

Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#55 - 2013-04-17 10:13:34 UTC
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
lmfao at the flat out lies that it is used against "newbies"

How come whenever someone has a problem with a mechanic they lie and pretend it affects primarily or only newbies when it is very, very clear it doesn't?

No one joins a corp to awox a 2 week old character in a cruiser, they awox older players in very expensive ships that take a lot of time and isk to invest in.

So don't bloody pretend this is about protecting newbies, it's about protecting old players who are lazy, stupid and all round bad at eve.


100% proof that you are wrong....

check ur inbox... kill mail that started me off on this rant is in there

tip: dont assume we are all lieing out of our arses....

anyone else wants the km ask... [unless there is a way to link it here, but its not my kill or loss so i really cba...]


Providing a contextless killmail and claiming it as 100% proof that CCP should make corp killings not allowed is potentially disingenuous.

We have no idea whether there was a valid reason behind the kill. Perhaps the newbi is a consumate **** and spent 3 days insulting the KM attacker who finally got fed up and shot him to teach him a lesson. There may well be a perfectly good reason why he did it and even if in this one instance that isn't the case, I certainly would stand up for the rights of players to be able to kill corpmates who act like dicks. One of the best things in this game is the potential for player consequence and as a corp polices itself that threat of consequence should definitely remain.
Keeper O'Secrets
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#56 - 2013-04-17 11:54:58 UTC
TheSkeptic wrote:
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:

still waiting for a reason why it should be kept....


I like being able to web my freighters into warp



= duel request
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#57 - 2013-04-17 11:58:41 UTC
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:


= duel request


Accepted! You name the place, I'll name the time and we can get our duel on. Lol
Keeper O'Secrets
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#58 - 2013-04-17 12:01:24 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:


= duel request


Accepted! You name the place, I'll name the time and we can get our duel on. Lol



jita iv - moon 4 - caldari navy logistics support - captains quarters....

...oh wait....
Tchulen
Trumpets and Bookmarks
#59 - 2013-04-17 12:07:49 UTC
lol Big smile
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#60 - 2013-04-17 12:08:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Drake Doe
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I think it's also important to note that new players are not children, in fact they are typically grown-ass men and that this is a computer game, not real life, nothing bad happens if you lose a spaceship.

They don't need protecting from anything. It's the game that needs protecting from people like the terrible OP who'd diminish its richness in the name of "protecting new players."

QFT

Edit: could someone mail me the Op's whine mail?

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--