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Remove corp friendly fire [in high sec]
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Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#21 - 2013-04-17 02:28:31 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Ruze wrote:
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Noobs these days are either refused entry to decent corps due to paranoia, or lured into griefer corps and popped. They then let their sub expire, either from boredom in npc corp or from rage of being popped and podded by corpmates, even though the value comes to like a mil isk.

This rarely happened in the early years of Eve, and when it does it's hailed as rare moments of lol. Nowadays it's everyday occurrence, and not worth talking about.

It's one of these emergent gameplay aspects, botting among them, that's ruining the game as well as hurting CCP's bottom line, once they became widespread. Time to fix it.


thanks you. finally someone else who sees the problem to newer players....


So your proposal is to prevent friendly fire amongst corp mates? So what happens when someone steals from you, or locks you out of your own hisec POS? What happens when they run off with your orca, or start salvaging your missions without your permission? Or is giving the enemy intel on your fleet?


That's risk working as intended. The only ones CCP need to protect and retain are the noobs who can hardly read an overview. Your POS is your own problem.


Speaking of misquoting, what about the rest of my statement?

You still can't protect the new player from their own ignorance. There are multiple ways beyond simply shooting corpies to ruin their fun.

Your still pushing a larger issue altogether. To accomplish what you want, which is protecting idiots from themselves, you have to give up that cold, harsh universe feeling.

Corp betrayal is only one small, insignificant change in that much larger goal.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#22 - 2013-04-17 02:28:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Vimsy Vortis
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:
if you read the entire thread, you will realise you miss quoted a little bit there

I really didn't and I already declared war anyway, so see you tomorrow.

I don't even like to declare war on people because of forum posts because it encourages people to use NPC corp characters to post on the forums, which is really annoying for a bunch of reasons, but this is the kind of ill-concieved carebear suggestion that deserves in-game consequences.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#23 - 2013-04-17 02:30:45 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:
if you read the entire thread, you will realise you miss quoted a little bit there

I really didn't and I already declared war anyway, so see you tomorrow.


What's that old saying? Always post with an alt?

I'm sure the next line of requests will be to prevent players from war deccing you just because you made a post. Or to hide your character when your on the forums. Or to stop war decs in hisec altogether 'to protect newbs'.

Hope you gents have a good fight. I'll drop some bounties to make the payout interesting.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#24 - 2013-04-17 02:36:48 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Noobs these days are either refused entry to decent corps due to paranoia, or lured into griefer corps and popped. They then let their sub expire, either from boredom in npc corp or from rage of being popped and podded by corpmates, even though the value comes to like a mil isk.

This rarely happened in the early years of Eve, and when it does it's hailed as rare moments of lol. Nowadays it's everyday occurrence, and not worth talking about.

It's one of these emergent gameplay aspects, botting among them, that's ruining the game as well as hurting CCP's bottom line, once they became widespread. Time to fix it.


It's actually a good thing. Those people are doing the work of Darwin - an already savvy player won't fall for it. A player that falls for it will likely learn and not trust that easily the second time - a good thing. The small percentage that doesn't will provide entertainment for the rest as they die in hilarious ways, likely in badly fitted, expensive ships.

It's not true that noobs are refused entry to decent corps. There's plenty of big corporations that help a newbie (E-Uni is most known, I do believe Brave Newbies and of course Goons themselves.) survive.

Even if a newbie doesn't join something big right off the bat, they may bunch up with a few additional newbies, start chatting and flying together - eventually they may form a corp themselves and wander trying to learn things. Even if they fail, disband and part ways - they'll know enough by that time to actually get into a decent corp.

Plus, you learn a few things about trust - remember, in hisec it's the corporation ticker that prevents someone from shooting you. In other areas of space it may be just a blue star or even plus - and you need to work with them to achieve anything.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Keeper O'Secrets
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2013-04-17 02:39:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Keeper O'Secrets
-
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#26 - 2013-04-17 02:40:34 UTC
What the hell are you talking about you crazy person I've never been at war with you before.
Keeper O'Secrets
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2013-04-17 02:41:34 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
What the hell are you talking about you crazy person I've never been at war with you before.

my bad... wrote without checking names... name rang a bell... but it wasnt you so i do appoligise
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-04-17 02:45:22 UTC
Trii Seo wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Noobs these days are either refused entry to decent corps due to paranoia, or lured into griefer corps and popped. They then let their sub expire, either from boredom in npc corp or from rage of being popped and podded by corpmates, even though the value comes to like a mil isk.

This rarely happened in the early years of Eve, and when it does it's hailed as rare moments of lol. Nowadays it's everyday occurrence, and not worth talking about.

It's one of these emergent gameplay aspects, botting among them, that's ruining the game as well as hurting CCP's bottom line, once they became widespread. Time to fix it.


It's actually a good thing. Those people are doing the work of Darwin - an already savvy player won't fall for it. A player that falls for it will likely learn and not trust that easily the second time - a good thing. The small percentage that doesn't will provide entertainment for the rest as they die in hilarious ways, likely in badly fitted, expensive ships.

It's not true that noobs are refused entry to decent corps. There's plenty of big corporations that help a newbie (E-Uni is most known, I do believe Brave Newbies and of course Goons themselves.) survive.

Even if a newbie doesn't join something big right off the bat, they may bunch up with a few additional newbies, start chatting and flying together - eventually they may form a corp themselves and wander trying to learn things. Even if they fail, disband and part ways - they'll know enough by that time to actually get into a decent corp.

Plus, you learn a few things about trust - remember, in hisec it's the corporation ticker that prevents someone from shooting you. In other areas of space it may be just a blue star or even plus - and you need to work with them to achieve anything.


You overestimate a normal gamer's (not internet spaceship dork's) commitment to Eve in their first week.

And it's just EUNI. Brave Newbies are lulz onto themselves, and recently revealed to be rife of alts. Goons offer to haul your stuff, all 2 mil isk worth of it...Lol
Keeper O'Secrets
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#29 - 2013-04-17 02:45:47 UTC
but i wont say sorry for making a thread in an attempt to fix a problem, want to come shoot me, youll have to wait till ccp intruduces that walking in stations content... properly... :)
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication
#30 - 2013-04-17 02:55:29 UTC
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:

can anyone give me a reason why it SHOULD stay?

/KoS


Aside from any concord issues due to coding: It has to stay because High Sec corporations like to test their fleet builds in more than 1v1 scenarios in High Sec. Dueling is great, but it does not cut it for fleets.

Now, if they did get rid of corp free fire, it would be good if CCP added a way for CEOs in a corp to flag members for mutual PvP. Extended this could also work for Alliances as well so that High Sec alliances could have multiple corp members also flagged for mutual PvP. To prevent abuse, the CEOs can unflag members (add a delay for it to take effect) and individual member can unflag themself (15 minute delay) while docked.

Just presenting an alternative to simply removing a valuable but sometimes abused feature.

Cloaking is the closest thing to a "Pause Game" button one can get while in space.

Support better localization for the Japanese Community.
Trii Seo
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2013-04-17 02:59:52 UTC
I don't know much about Brave Newbies but I heard they roll around and explode - that's usually good. Goons actually make a newbie useful, hand out free ships, skillbooks and offer a lot of guidance. "Cute newbie" is a rather terrifying thing when in a Slasher he didn't have to pay for and headed straight for you with a web and a scram. Especially when there's five of them.

I'd say if a normal player doesn't show enough commitment to last the first week, they'll die in the second even with CCP's help - or at the first occasion things slow down, as it tends to happen. Plus, it's sort of easy to pull up character/corporation killboards and see they reverse-awox a lot. If you didn't and you just got yourself shot up by a green well - that's your lesson!

Also, removing this mechanic would be another step away from cold, harsh universe. The promise of a cold, harsh universe is what draws many to EVE to begin with.

Proud pilot of the Imperium

Arek'Jaalan: Heliograph
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-04-17 03:00:06 UTC
It's threads like this that tell me both that I'm in the right line of work and that there's so much more to do yet.

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#33 - 2013-04-17 03:02:17 UTC
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:
but i wont say sorry for making a thread in an attempt to fix a problem, want to come shoot me, youll have to wait till ccp intruduces that walking in stations content... properly... :)

It's not a problem, it's an intended game mechanic.

Highsec space is not mean't to be safe, its meant to be safer. Removing one of the few elements of risk that still exist in the game is harmful to the air of unpredictability in the game and limits opportunities for the kind of scheming and subterfuge that the game is regularly marketed on.

Moreover new players are virtually never the subject of targetted aggression be characters in their corporations, unreasonably expensive mission ships, freighter pilots and really obnoxious people who like to talk smack to people are much more likely target.

You're making a totally baseless "think of the children" argument against one of the few mechanics that forces people in highsec to make intelligent choices about who they admit to their corporation and presents a legitimate source of danger in an otherwise entirely bubblewrapped type of space.

Subsequently I'm paying for an extra week of this war right now.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#34 - 2013-04-17 03:04:35 UTC
While this is an idea that the majority of people would get behind, the voice of sanity will never be able to drown out the whining cries of the trolling awoxers.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#35 - 2013-04-17 03:04:40 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:
but i wont say sorry for making a thread in an attempt to fix a problem, want to come shoot me, youll have to wait till ccp intruduces that walking in stations content... properly... :)

It's not a problem, it's an intended game mechanic.

Highsec space is not mean't to be safe, its meant to be safer. Removing one of the few elements of risk that still exist in the game is harmful to the air of unpredictability in the game and limits opportunities for the kind of scheming and subterfuge that the game is regularly marketed on.

Moreover new players are virtually never the subject of targetted aggression be characters in their corporations, unreasonably expensive mission ships, freighter pilots and really obnoxious people who like to talk smack to people are much more likely target.

You're making a totally baseless "think of the children" argument against one of the few mechanics that forces people in highsec to make intelligent choices about who they admit to their corporation and presents a legitimate source of danger in an otherwise entirely bubblewrapped type of space.

Subsequently I'm paying for an extra week of this war right now.


Plus, when do we want these characters to learn this lesson? When they lose 1 million isk total in fits and clone, or when it's their first freighter that they just worked their ass off for three months to get?

Considering the alternative, the new player is setup far better to learn the harshest lessons. Fly what you can afford to lose, never trust anyone, and don't be a victim.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#36 - 2013-04-17 03:07:42 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
While this is an idea that the majority of people would get behind, the voice of sanity will never be able to drown out the whining cries of the trolling awoxers.


Oh, majority? Are we sure? I mean, you and your friends, sure. But me and my friends, uhn-uhn.

I tell you what, how about we put it to the CSM. You and your majority vote for the guys who'll stand up for you, and me and my majority will vote for the guys who will stand up for us.

I personally feel that this is a great indicator of who has the majority. At least in organized, conscientious and active supporters of gameplay related discussions.

Your majority might have a chance if they weren't all trying to just do their own thing and got organized.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Keeper O'Secrets
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-04-17 03:07:52 UTC
Petrified wrote:
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:

can anyone give me a reason why it SHOULD stay?

/KoS


Aside from any concord issues due to coding: It has to stay because High Sec corporations like to test their fleet builds in more than 1v1 scenarios in High Sec. Dueling is great, but it does not cut it for fleets.

Now, if they did get rid of corp free fire, it would be good if CCP added a way for CEOs in a corp to flag members for mutual PvP. Extended this could also work for Alliances as well so that High Sec alliances could have multiple corp members also flagged for mutual PvP. To prevent abuse, the CEOs can unflag members (add a delay for it to take effect) and individual member can unflag themself (15 minute delay) while docked.

Just presenting an alternative to simply removing a valuable but sometimes abused feature.


yes, this would be a great step. another solution to this bit of the "puzzle" (or a side by side system) could be "fleet dueling", maby with a 5 min countdown from offer to commencement [after boss accepting the duel] to allow all members to accept or be kicked from fleet? (to remove the problem with that system being abused....) - dueling mechanics do need to be expanded i do agree on that :)

thank you for your input.
Ruze
Next Stage Initiative
#38 - 2013-04-17 03:10:37 UTC
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:
Petrified wrote:
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:

can anyone give me a reason why it SHOULD stay?

/KoS


Aside from any concord issues due to coding: It has to stay because High Sec corporations like to test their fleet builds in more than 1v1 scenarios in High Sec. Dueling is great, but it does not cut it for fleets.

Now, if they did get rid of corp free fire, it would be good if CCP added a way for CEOs in a corp to flag members for mutual PvP. Extended this could also work for Alliances as well so that High Sec alliances could have multiple corp members also flagged for mutual PvP. To prevent abuse, the CEOs can unflag members (add a delay for it to take effect) and individual member can unflag themself (15 minute delay) while docked.

Just presenting an alternative to simply removing a valuable but sometimes abused feature.


yes, this would be a great step. another solution to this bit of the "puzzle" (or a side by side system) could be "fleet dueling", maby with a 5 min countdown from offer to commencement [after boss accepting the duel] to allow all members to accept or be kicked from fleet? (to remove the problem with that system being abused....) - dueling mechanics do need to be expanded i do agree on that :)

thank you for your input.


It would be nice to be able to allow corporations in the same alliance to have micro-wars. Let us set them to last so many hours, etc. Isk sink, inter-corp fun, and definitely adding to the game.

Hell, you could do micro-wars between consenting corporations even if they aren't in the same alliance.

If you're driven to threaten others with harm or violence because of what they do in game, you can't separate fantasy from reality. That "griefer/thief" is probably more sane than you are. How screwed up is that?
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#39 - 2013-04-17 03:13:15 UTC
I think it's also important to note that new players are not children, in fact they are typically grown-ass men and that this is a computer game, not real life, nothing bad happens if you lose a spaceship.

They don't need protecting from anything. It's the game that needs protecting from people like the terrible OP who'd diminish its richness in the name of "protecting new players."
Psychotic Monk
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2013-04-17 03:15:56 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
I think it's also important to note that new players are not children, in fact they are typically grown-ass men and that this is a computer game, not real life, nothing bad happens if you lose a spaceship.

They don't need protecting from anything. It's the game that needs protecting from people like the terrible OP who'd diminish its richness in the name of "protecting new players."

Belligerent Undesirables Selling Griefer Immunity