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PVE - is the Tengu still top
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Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-04-15 18:28:03 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Battle BV Master wrote:
Its never been top, for anything.

But its good (not the same as top) at a lot of things. But really the DPS is a joke compared to most other ships. Dont mission in a Tengu.

It makes the baby jebus cry Sad


My HAM Tengu works pretty well. I dunno, maybe 1000 DPS at 28Km is a joke? Once you learn the mission patters, it's quite double to keep targets in range for nearly all the time, and Guristas, Serps, EoM, Mercs melt like butter under that kind of fire.

Knowing that the HML nerf was coming, I reskilled my Tengu alt into T2 HAMs, and after that T2 Cruise missiles, so he swaps to a CNR for the long range, EM-rat missions like Sansha Pirate Invasion and so on. It works extremely well.


1k dps at 28km is indeed a joke for missions. Any dps at 28km is a joke for missions. A cheap Navy Geddon (costing ~15 mil more than a Rokh/Mael/Abaddon) with scorch and Curators get 1.3k dps at 65km. 65km is not a joke, 28km is. I'll leave it at that.Roll


i might be bad at eft warrioring but i can only get 1k dps with curators and pulses using scorch. Without implants.

And 65km would be +1 falloff so dps would drop to about 700

Art of Explosions
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#22 - 2013-04-15 23:46:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Garviel Tarrant
The tengu is the best for doing non lvl 5 content in low sec and 0.0

For high sec mission grinding the BS's have always been the best.



(Also the Napoc is better for missioning than the Neddon.... And really really really pretty...)

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2013-04-16 00:39:12 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
The tengu is the best for doing non lvl 5 content in low sec and 0.0

For high sec mission grinding the BS's have always been the best.



(Also the Napoc is better for missioning than the Neddon.... And really really really pretty...)


That's 700 dps compared to 1.3k. You get 25% more range, and better cap. Apoc is an easy boat for noobs to get into, that's it.

Tsukino Stareine wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Battle BV Master wrote:
Its never been top, for anything.

But its good (not the same as top) at a lot of things. But really the DPS is a joke compared to most other ships. Dont mission in a Tengu.

It makes the baby jebus cry Sad


My HAM Tengu works pretty well. I dunno, maybe 1000 DPS at 28Km is a joke? Once you learn the mission patters, it's quite double to keep targets in range for nearly all the time, and Guristas, Serps, EoM, Mercs melt like butter under that kind of fire.

Knowing that the HML nerf was coming, I reskilled my Tengu alt into T2 HAMs, and after that T2 Cruise missiles, so he swaps to a CNR for the long range, EM-rat missions like Sansha Pirate Invasion and so on. It works extremely well.


1k dps at 28km is indeed a joke for missions. Any dps at 28km is a joke for missions. A cheap Navy Geddon (costing ~15 mil more than a Rokh/Mael/Abaddon) with scorch and Curators get 1.3k dps at 65km. 65km is not a joke, 28km is. I'll leave it at that.Roll


i might be bad at eft warrioring but i can only get 1k dps with curators and pulses using scorch. Without implants.

And 65km would be +1 falloff so dps would drop to about 700


The typical 4 faction dmg mods. Or 3 plus a drone dmg mod. If you get only 1k, there's something seriously wrong, as in... no dmg mods at all.

Btw, you need to brush up on falloff curve. If you think it drops to 700 from 1km, you've got a lot of work to do.

In any case, that's hardly the point. We were talking about the Tengu and its inadequacies...
Nikita LaFem
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-04-16 01:18:41 UTC
Thanks for all the input. Very helpful.
Ryuu Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#25 - 2013-04-16 02:04:18 UTC
I find my 1300+ dps, 41Km T1 rig Torp Golem the best for Hubsin 0.0 that spawn no more than 10Km away from me. Hi ticks and I farm the loots too!

_**Noob **_isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.

  • Sun Tzu
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2013-04-16 02:36:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
It was never the best at grinding missions for ISK though it is extremely effective and you really can't go wrong with it. Even though you won't make as much in a CNR, it's a lot more fun to fly.

Speeding through fields of fire, not giving a **** because of your resists, and tossing missiles everywhere can be quite a bit of fun.

Tengu is the best for lowsec and 0.0 space where being a bulky battle ship will get you ganked very quickly. However I would avoid using the Tengu in blood raider space because of the neuts and nos they spam at you.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Caitlyn Tufy
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2013-04-16 07:03:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy
sabre906 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Battle BV Master wrote:
Its never been top, for anything.

But its good (not the same as top) at a lot of things. But really the DPS is a joke compared to most other ships. Dont mission in a Tengu.

It makes the baby jebus cry Sad


My HAM Tengu works pretty well. I dunno, maybe 1000 DPS at 28Km is a joke? Once you learn the mission patters, it's quite double to keep targets in range for nearly all the time, and Guristas, Serps, EoM, Mercs melt like butter under that kind of fire.

Knowing that the HML nerf was coming, I reskilled my Tengu alt into T2 HAMs, and after that T2 Cruise missiles, so he swaps to a CNR for the long range, EM-rat missions like Sansha Pirate Invasion and so on. It works extremely well.


1k dps at 28km is indeed a joke for missions. Any dps at 28km is a joke for missions. A cheap Navy Geddon (costing ~15 mil more than a Rokh/Mael/Abaddon) with scorch and Curators get 1.3k dps at 65km. 65km is not a joke, 28km is. I'll leave it at that.Roll


Frankly, I'd rather have 28km on a Tengu than 65 on a Geddon for missions. Why, you might ask? Because Geddon in slow and if you land on a mission that has targets 100km away (such as Sansha Pirate Invasion or Worlds Collide room 1), you'll need considerably more time to reach them than the Tengu will. MJD helped in this regard, but I'd still opt for a naturally fast battleship (Machariel) or a very long range boat (Napoc, Nightmare, CNR, Navy Domi) over a mid range slowboat for missions. If we're talking about ratting though, things are very different of course - especially in hubs or belts, the short range, high dps ships win hands down, no questions asked. Take Vindi for instance - missions? Not really. Ratting? Hell yeah.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-04-16 11:26:38 UTC
Caitlyn Tufy wrote:
sabre906 wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Battle BV Master wrote:
Its never been top, for anything.

But its good (not the same as top) at a lot of things. But really the DPS is a joke compared to most other ships. Dont mission in a Tengu.

It makes the baby jebus cry Sad


My HAM Tengu works pretty well. I dunno, maybe 1000 DPS at 28Km is a joke? Once you learn the mission patters, it's quite double to keep targets in range for nearly all the time, and Guristas, Serps, EoM, Mercs melt like butter under that kind of fire.

Knowing that the HML nerf was coming, I reskilled my Tengu alt into T2 HAMs, and after that T2 Cruise missiles, so he swaps to a CNR for the long range, EM-rat missions like Sansha Pirate Invasion and so on. It works extremely well.


1k dps at 28km is indeed a joke for missions. Any dps at 28km is a joke for missions. A cheap Navy Geddon (costing ~15 mil more than a Rokh/Mael/Abaddon) with scorch and Curators get 1.3k dps at 65km. 65km is not a joke, 28km is. I'll leave it at that.Roll


Frankly, I'd rather have 28km on a Tengu than 65 on a Geddon for missions. Why, you might ask? Because Geddon in slow and if you land on a mission that has targets 100km away (such as Sansha Pirate Invasion or Worlds Collide room 1), you'll need considerably more time to reach them than the Tengu will. MJD helped in this regard, but I'd still opt for a naturally fast battleship (Machariel) or a very long range boat (Napoc, Nightmare, CNR, Navy Domi) over a mid range slowboat for missions. If we're talking about ratting though, things are very different of course - especially in hubs or belts, the short range, high dps ships win hands down, no questions asked. Take Vindi for instance - missions? Not really. Ratting? Hell yeah.


You do realize they let you use mwd in mission for a while now, right?P
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-04-16 12:08:53 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
Ya know, it is a funny irony.

People ***** about the T3's needing massive nerfs. And the Tengu is up there due to its popularity.

But in reality it actually fits the T3 concept perfectly.

It is good but not the best mission runner
It is good but not the best Exploration platform
It is good but not the best nullsec anom runner
It is good but not the best WH PVE platform
It is good but not the best PVP platform

Jack of many trades, master of none.


What? ... Think again. "not the best in this or that situation - the best across the spectrum".

L2's - most it can do. L3's - all of them. L4's - all of them. L5's a chunk of them solo.

Would you mind listing the ships that compare to it?

Also, being as every NPC target you face, you can pick its weakest resist to pound on with 100% of the damage you do. No other ammo allows for this. That means comparing a Nightmare vs a Tengu in Amarr space - Nightmare will win but comparing against Angels in Minmatar space? Tengu wins.

It's why the Tengu is found all over vs many other types of ships. It is comparable even against "best target" yet comes to the top against less favorable targets.

Then we have size of ship and trying to do missions and such in more dangerous space. "bring a point scout alt. If you find a camp, go around" - Tengu = plow through with 1 account.

...
hellcane
Never Back Down
#30 - 2013-04-16 12:23:35 UTC  |  Edited by: hellcane
Quote:
Also, being as every NPC target you face, you can pick its weakest resist to pound on with 100% of the damage you do. No other ammo allows for this.

You don't understand damage application or the tengu's kinetic bonus do you?

Quote:
It's why the Tengu is found all over vs many other types of ships

The main reason is that most new missioners are in caldari space, where kinetic bonuses work well, and they never have had a real ship to compare it to.
mama guru
Yazatas.
#31 - 2013-04-17 13:33:51 UTC
hellcane wrote:
Quote:
Also, being as every NPC target you face, you can pick its weakest resist to pound on with 100% of the damage you do. No other ammo allows for this.

You don't understand damage application or the tengu's kinetic bonus do you?

Quote:
It's why the Tengu is found all over vs many other types of ships

The main reason is that most new missioners are in caldari space, where kinetic bonuses work well, and they never have had a real ship to compare it to.


The tengu is also just an all around very powerful ratting and mission platform. HAM setups work best now, I used an HML setup till about two weeks after the nerf when I made a switch. I noticed an increase in performance, as long as you mind your positioning.

700ms AB and a decent small shield booster lets you tank and control range like nobodys buisness. An MWD machariel is still faster, but a tengu is less harsh on your SP requirements.

EVE online is the fishermans friend of MMO's. If it's too hard you are too weak.
Nikita LaFem
Doomheim
#32 - 2013-04-17 16:50:10 UTC
Thanks again for the input. Yea, the Tengu looks best for what I want to do. Since I have to grind standing I can run a Hookbill, then a Caracal and then Tengu in rapid succession. The Tengu gives me lots of options for low or null missions or ratting too.

All around probably my best option.
FFV
Hedion University
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-04-17 17:13:16 UTC
Nikita LaFem wrote:
Ok. So suggestions on what ship other tan the Tengu?

CNR, Mach, marauder?



Im ok with my vargur.
Karig'Ano Keikira
Tax Cheaters
#34 - 2013-04-18 12:54:30 UTC
Tengu is good for missions, especially if you manage to fly it efficiently with HAMs,
however, is it best? nope and it never was either.
- mach is FoTM these days and for good reason; vargur and nightmare are close to it
- golem and cnr I pretty much find to be on even ground with Tengu - better for some missions, worse for others
however with upcoming cruise buffs, I think both will be better then Tengu all around.

As for exploration, Tengu is definitely good ship, but is it best? Not really sure, mainly due to its price / performance - gila or isthar are significantly less expensive and you don't risk skill loss with them
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