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WARDECS
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Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#1 - 2013-04-15 02:00:40 UTC
Dear CCP,

Please make the NPC holding corps war-dec-able. By which I mean, the corps that a player drops in to once they leave a corporation.

I think this is a good idea because many high-SP players with blinged out ships are escaping the wardec mechanic by hiding in NPC corporations that have no legitimate reason to NOT be valid for war-decs. These are *not* noob corps. This will be a good change to small corporations and larger entities that want to fight wars against these players as they will be in return targetable for free by thousands of enemies.

By making it that the NPC corps do not set wars to mutual, only serious applicants will set such a large NPC corp to enemy. NPC corps do not surrender wars either. This means that a wardec against an NPC holding corp becomes a huge isk sink both in terms of war fees and the ships lost on either side. As is repeatedly pointed out at fanfest year on year, ISK generation is predominantly done through mission running. Adding in an (expensive) way to burn some of that ISK is a natural and sensible solution to the problem of what is nearly 100% inflation in 1 year.
Pan Dora
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2013-04-15 02:53:54 UTC

So your idea its to declare war against a chat room?

HTFU gankbear

-CCP would boost ECM so it also block the ability of buthurt posting.
Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#3 - 2013-04-15 03:05:06 UTC
I claim this thread in the name of stupid.
DataRunner Attor
Doomheim
#4 - 2013-04-15 03:05:15 UTC
however, high corp doesn't protect you from ganking in general, just blow their ship up, silly.

“Point out to me a person who has been harmed by an AFK cloaker and I will point out a person who has no business playing this game.”
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#5 - 2013-04-15 04:28:14 UTC
DataRunner Attor wrote:
however, high corp doesn't protect you from ganking in general, just blow their ship up, silly.


This isn't about griefing this is about actually hurting those who drop corp to escape wardecs. EVE online has this remarkable capacity for allowing people to escape liability.
Ersahi Kir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-04-15 04:35:11 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
DataRunner Attor wrote:
however, high corp doesn't protect you from ganking in general, just blow their ship up, silly.


This isn't about griefing this is about actually hurting those who drop corp to escape wardecs. EVE online has this remarkable capacity for allowing people to escape liability.


When CCP can limit a player to a single character we can talk about people dodging liability. As it stands everything in eve is set up to avoid liability.

So I'm going to withhold my support for this petition.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#7 - 2013-04-15 04:44:33 UTC
If they limited it to one character per human player they'd lose more than half their subscriptions...
Neal Altol
What Shall We Call It
#8 - 2013-04-15 04:59:39 UTC
so instead of just dropping corp they would join/make a corp
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#9 - 2013-04-15 06:02:18 UTC

If they are in blinged out ships... it is probably profitable to suicide gank them. Do so, and teach them that they aren't safe anywhere in EvE.

As for wardec evasion: I once read an idea to punish players wardec evading: Drop for a corp with active wardecs, and the ceo of your war-enemies gain a killright on you. This allows them to hunt you and kill you for one month from dropping corp, and really undermines the "get safe" options.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#10 - 2013-04-15 06:19:34 UTC
So... more ways for vets to grief newbies if they want to?
Every feature suggested here to try and block the 'exploit' will be abused twice as much to grief newbies who can't fight back effectivly.
Absolon Echerie
Roving Guns Inc.
#11 - 2013-04-15 07:37:02 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
Dear CCP,

Please make the NPC holding corps war-dec-able. By which I mean, the corps that a player drops in to once they leave a corporation.

I think this is a good idea because many high-SP players with blinged out ships are escaping the wardec mechanic by hiding in NPC corporations that have no legitimate reason to NOT be valid for war-decs. These are *not* noob corps. This will be a good change to small corporations and larger entities that want to fight wars against these players as they will be in return targetable for free by thousands of enemies.

By making it that the NPC corps do not set wars to mutual, only serious applicants will set such a large NPC corp to enemy. NPC corps do not surrender wars either. This means that a wardec against an NPC holding corp becomes a huge isk sink both in terms of war fees and the ships lost on either side. As is repeatedly pointed out at fanfest year on year, ISK generation is predominantly done through mission running. Adding in an (expensive) way to burn some of that ISK is a natural and sensible solution to the problem of what is nearly 100% inflation in 1 year.



just 2 different types of NPC corps would fix it... 1 where only starting players are in that is non-wardeccable and then another one older players and people who are corp-less are put into that can be wardecced. maybe due to size of the corp wardeccing it should be more expensive since i think it will be kinda huge
Keeper O'Secrets
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2013-04-15 08:07:15 UTC
or... or... or... go and get proper pvp fights instead of bitching about mechanics that are already weighted in the favor of people with alot of sp bullying the **** out of thoes with less...

you dont want your targets dropping to npc corps? dont pick targets that cant/dont want to fight you....

we can all agree the current, altho new, war dec system is stupidly broken, but for many more reasons than this op is suggesting.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#13 - 2013-04-15 08:56:16 UTC
Keeper O'Secrets wrote:
or... or... or... go and get proper pvp fights instead of bitching about mechanics that are already weighted in the favor of people with alot of sp bullying the **** out of thoes with less...

you dont want your targets dropping to npc corps? dont pick targets that cant/dont want to fight you....

we can all agree the current, altho new, war dec system is stupidly broken, but for many more reasons than this op is suggesting.


As you will see I have just changed corporation to one that is running many wars against other corporations.

I still stand by my OP though.

Quote:

just 2 different types of NPC corps would fix it... 1 where only starting players are in that is non-wardeccable and then another one older players and people who are corp-less are put into that can be wardecced. maybe due to size of the corp wardeccing it should be more expensive since i think it will be kinda huge


That's pretty much what I was thinking. Players that are new are in their birth-corps and those corps are not valid for wardecs. Corps like Caldari Provisions, for example, is the 2nd variety of corp and is a holding corp for those in between player corps.

Whether a newbie should be placed in to the 2nd catagory within x-timeframe of starting their EVE life is a different question and I guess that would be a hotly debated topic.
Ordellus
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-04-16 01:55:08 UTC
Caleb Seremshur wrote:
EVE online has this remarkable capacity for allowing people to escape liability.


Lol at the douche bag that constantly escapes liability complaining b/c someone else gets to.

Just because you can be an ******* to other players all day, doesn't mean you should. Try growing up, you might feel better.
Caleb Seremshur
Bloodhorn
Patchwork Freelancers
#15 - 2013-04-16 11:37:22 UTC
Reposting because post got eaten.

I wonder who your main is.

That aside, there is a certain degree of risk in FW that I enjoyed for nearly 2 years. Now that I have switched to highsec wardecs I can see now just how prohibitive the system really is. Certainly not many will drop from their corps for whatever reason but some do and it is even a recommended tactic for people looking to avoid wardecs entirely.

FWIW in the last 2 days al--

forgot what I said here but basicly highsec wardecs are an escape tool that is counter-intuitive to EVE gameplay. CCP claim over and over again in the CSM/elsewhere that EVE isn't about being safe, while there is punishment for criminals in highsec, CONCORD are NOT there to protect you. They are there to punish the guilty. Why do holding corps get immunity from wardecs? Do you even know how wardecs work? 200 mil a week is a pretty big deal to highsec corporations incase you didn't know.
Kharamete
Royal Assent
#16 - 2013-04-21 22:54:36 UTC
I have been thinking about how to change this, and I spoke to a good friend, and we settled on a way that I think would make war-deccing NPC corps balanced.

First, there is absolutely a need to a sort of safe-zone for new players until they get their space legs and can actually make intelligent choices about this game. That does not mean there should be no consequences for their actions, but bear with me.
I propose doing an inverted tiericide of NPC-corps, by introducing two tiers. In the first tier, you have corporations like FNA, which gains the role of being somewhat safe harbours for the absolute newbies in this game.

Second, war-decing an NPC corp has the consequence that you are war-decing the faction. So, if I wardec'ed Kaalakiota, then it would be logical for Kaalakiota to use its influence in the Caldari State to make me a target everywhere in the State until the war-dec ended. Militiamen, faction navies, etc would make my trips to Jita interesting. This would make the idea to war-dec a pillar of the community, such as a major NPC corp, something that you only undertook after considerable thought. Or you thought "lots of targets, yeah!". It would probably also bring a lot of people into faction war.

So, yes, I absolutely agree with tiering the NPC corps to make corporations like the Federation Navy Academy 'safe', but exposing corps like The Scope for the risk of wardecs. How to handle the transition between FNA and the Scope, I haven't considered. But maybe new players are moved on after three, four months. One could consider it graduation from the school corps.

CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."

My little youtube videos can be found here
Litair
Nleesh
#17 - 2013-04-22 00:25:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Litair
While I can see why you'd hunt to hunt someone down in particular, war decs are not for that purpose. War decs are to declare war on an entire corporation.

It would be a mess beyond comprehension if you could war dec these NPC factions, as evidently every single pirate/merc/pvp/any corp out there would do it, just for the sake of having more free noobs to kill in high sec and bolster their all important killboards.
No, there needs to be a place for people who's not pro-pvpers and just want to chill out and do missions or haul items around or whatever. Does that mean they're completely safe? No, but it's a criminal act to attack them, as it obviously should be.

There is already FW NPC corporations for those who wish to engage in random PvP.
Kharamete
Royal Assent
#18 - 2013-04-22 00:28:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Kharamete
Quote:
It would be a mess beyond comprehension if you could war dec these NPC factions, as evidently every single pirate/merc/pvp/any corp out there would do it, just for the sake of having more free noobs to kill in high sec and bolster their all important killboards.


I don't see that as a big problem.

Edit-
I don't have the highest opinion of most high sec "pvp" corps. They are more concerned, in my experience, with easy kills than strategic or tactical or even purposeful kills. So, most would never bother the tier 2 npc corps because the consequences would be so dire.

It would not be the NPC corps that would be engaged in Faction war. It would be the aggressors.

CCP FoxFour: "... the what button... oh god I didn't even know that existed. BRB."

My little youtube videos can be found here
Litair
Nleesh
#19 - 2013-04-22 00:43:15 UTC
Kharamete wrote:
Quote:
It would be a mess beyond comprehension if you could war dec these NPC factions, as evidently every single pirate/merc/pvp/any corp out there would do it, just for the sake of having more free noobs to kill in high sec and bolster their all important killboards.


I don't see that as a big problem.

Edit-
I don't have the highest opinion of most high sec "pvp" corps. They are more concerned, in my experience, with easy kills than strategic or tactical or even purposeful kills. So, most would never bother the tier 2 npc corps because the consequences would be so dire.

It would not be the NPC corps that would be engaged in Faction war. It would be the aggressors.


Well you may for instance think of the goons, who's ultimate goal in life is to destroy EVE. They would welcome such an opportunity to utterly crush high sec play and scare away new people, thus killing the game. Not just total noobs, but also people who just haven't gone to join a great 0.0 alliance yet or returning players from years past.

The things you have mentioned could perhaps work. Would certainly be better, but at least with the current system it shouldn't be possible to wardec those npc factions. That's all I'm saying :p
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-04-22 01:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
CCP wrote:
You dec the corp, not the player

If ppl leaves decced corp, you've won.

/thread
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