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Why don't gankers and war deccers just go to low/null/wh space????
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Selene Nask
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#61 - 2013-04-14 17:46:54 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Andski wrote:
the whole "lowsec/null are for PvP, hisec isn't" mentality is driven by CCP's coddling of the worst players in the game

until that coddling ends and they are less sheltered from the realities of eve that mentality will continue to be prevalent


Dictating the realities of EvE again?

The reality is, CCP cannot survive on alts forever, which means they need to bring in more new players. With the number of griefers in the game, CCP has no choice but to make it harder for them.

Easy to understand for a logical person.....Roll




Its only logical if you're assuming that every one new to game wants or needs that type of 'care'. Many people don't. Perhaps I'm biased but I sure don't and didn't when I started a couple of months ago. And the half a dozen or more people that joined at the same time in my corp didn't and don't either. Most of us came to EVE knowing full well the 'risk' and desiring a game that has some edge to it rather then many of the other MMOS we've been playing for years. And by my count now that number has doubled in new paid alt accounts and in a couple of cases tripled ( like me)

And we are hardly risk averse. Our kill boards are pitful (hilariously so, though slowly getting better) and I've lost count of how many ships I've lost in both pvp and pve. Most every one of those losses is either going into something knowing the loss is likely to happen or just due to being stupid or partaking in something risky and losing the bet. And yet everyone is still having fun and plugging away, sometimes after losses that can be quite horrific wallet wise for new characters.

I doubt I would have paid for more then one account or even feel like staying in this game if it wasn't for the risk as aggravating as it can be at times. There are very few if any other games out there like it and that's what's great about it. It's almost like a breath of fresh air.

So yes my point. Please don't assume that new players need or want to be coddled. I have no idea about numbers in comparison, but I highly doubt that me and my group are some sort of outlying exception.
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#62 - 2013-04-14 17:51:16 UTC
If I wanted to play WoW I'd just go play WoW. It's better at it.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2013-04-14 17:56:17 UTC
Tasha Saisima wrote:
they have to stay in hi-sec because they are basically pvp carebears


When the masses of high sec take their untanked pinata into low sec we will follow.
Dave Stark
#64 - 2013-04-14 18:10:23 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
If I wanted to play WoW I'd just go play WoW. It's better at it.


if you wanted to play wow i'd be worried about you. life can't be that bad, surely?
Random Majere
Rogue Fleet
#65 - 2013-04-14 18:13:29 UTC
The thing is that, it all boils down to two simple questions:

1- Why do you play Eve? and

2- What is your personnel code of ethics, when playing in an MMO?


Trying to debate on who is right and who is wrong is totally pointless.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#66 - 2013-04-14 18:26:15 UTC
Random Majere wrote:
The thing is that, it all boils down to two simple questions:

1- Why do you play Eve? and

2- What is your personnel code of ethics, when playing in an MMO?


Trying to debate on who is right and who is wrong is totally pointless.


I think there is a right and a wrong.

Right: EVE is a sandbox, and why I play and what my code of ethics in game are can be applied anywhere, any time. That's what EVE is.

Wrong: EVE has PVP zones and PVE zones, and you're a bad wrong nastyman if you try to do the PVP in the PVE zone and should go to the PVP zone because people in the PVE zone don't want their things blown up, stolen, etc
Selene Nask
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#67 - 2013-04-14 18:27:57 UTC
Random Majere wrote:
The thing is that, it all boils down to two simple questions:

1- Why do you play Eve? and

2- What is your personnel code of ethics, when playing in an MMO?


Trying to debate on who is right and who is wrong is totally pointless.



True but coming into a game that is not already set up to be 100% safe (except when docked) and that only has degrees of safety set up to choose from and then getting frustrated at the lack of total safety and turning that frustration into some sort of demand for it to change to be even more safe is pretty cheesy.

Someone that wants a high degree of safety from loss in the way and why they can stay in HS 100% of the time. If they are after 100% safety against unwanted loss then they really made a mistake in thinking EVE is set up for that. That's the issue the person has with the way they like or desire to play EVE vs how the game they chose to join and play is. That is hardly the games fault.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#68 - 2013-04-14 18:30:11 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Instead of picking on people in highsec who can't fight back and don't want to PVP?

[…]

In case you didn't get it, sarcasm. I'm saying this "go to low/null/wh to pvp" line is stupid.
Since the ones using that line are stupid, and therefore not a good target for sarcasm, wouldn't it be easier to just provide them with the answer:

“Why should they? There's no reason to.”
Xen Solarus
Furious Destruction and Salvage
#69 - 2013-04-14 18:36:32 UTC
Simple answer, targets in low/null/wh-space shoot back. Those in highsec don't. Why do risky PvP when you've got highsec easy-mode?

Post with your main, like a BOSS!

And no, i don't live in highsec.  As if that would make your opinion any less wrong.  
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#70 - 2013-04-14 18:38:16 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Simple answer, targets in low/null/wh-space shoot back. Those in highsec don't. Why do risky PvP when you've got highsec easy-mode?

You didn't read the OP, did you?
Lady Zarrina
New Eden Browncoats
#71 - 2013-04-14 18:40:43 UTC
they might lose

EVE: All about Flying Frisky and Making Iskie
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#72 - 2013-04-14 18:41:40 UTC
Xen Solarus wrote:
Simple answer, targets in low/null/wh-space shoot back. Those in highsec don't. Why do risky PvP when you've got highsec easy-mode?


People in low sec dont fly around in untanked ships with billions in the hold. Thats why we are in high sec.
Augustine Artrald
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2013-04-14 18:55:35 UTC
I have been playing EVE for a little over a week now, and I am a trifle confused by the hostility directed toward players who prefer or only care about PVE. Whenever someone suggests that EVE is boring and merely a spreadsheet simulator, plenty of EVE fans rally in defense of the game and argue that EVE is a sandbox--whatever the player wants it to be. Yet some players, several of whom have posted in this thread, seem focused on the idea that EVE must only be centered on PVP. Is it so hard for those players to accept that others might not actually enjoy PVP, might actually find it boring, and, yes, might actually prefer PVE?

I personally have no interest in the PVP aspect of EVE. Does that mean I should quit the game?

I am not suggesting that those who enjoy PVP should restrict themselves only to mutual PVP. But when players ardently seek to ruin the fun of those who focus on PVE so as to drive them away from the game, a problem exists. Such behavior seems, at least to me, detrimental to the spirit of EVE.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2013-04-14 19:06:18 UTC
Augustine Artrald wrote:
I have been playing EVE for a little over a week now, and I am a trifle confused by the hostility directed toward players who prefer or only care about PVE. Whenever someone suggests that EVE is boring and merely a spreadsheet simulator, plenty of EVE fans rally in defense of the game and argue that EVE is a sandbox--whatever the player wants it to be. Yet some players, several of whom have posted in this thread, seem focused on the idea that EVE must only be centered on PVP. Is it so hard for those players to accept that others might not actually enjoy PVP, might actually find it boring, and, yes, might actually prefer PVE?

I personally have no interest in the PVP aspect of EVE. Does that mean I should quit the game?

I am not suggesting that those who enjoy PVP should restrict themselves only to mutual PVP. But when players ardently seek to ruin the fun of those who focus on PVE so as to drive them away from the game, a problem exists. Such behavior seems, at least to me, detrimental to the spirit of EVE.




Why do people think they should be exempt from the same rules as everyone else?

You joined a PVP game, don't be shocked that pvp will happen to you.
Augustine Artrald
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#75 - 2013-04-14 19:20:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Augustine Artrald wrote:
I have been playing EVE for a little over a week now, and I am a trifle confused by the hostility directed toward players who prefer or only care about PVE. Whenever someone suggests that EVE is boring and merely a spreadsheet simulator, plenty of EVE fans rally in defense of the game and argue that EVE is a sandbox--whatever the player wants it to be. Yet some players, several of whom have posted in this thread, seem focused on the idea that EVE must only be centered on PVP. Is it so hard for those players to accept that others might not actually enjoy PVP, might actually find it boring, and, yes, might actually prefer PVE?

I personally have no interest in the PVP aspect of EVE. Does that mean I should quit the game?

I am not suggesting that those who enjoy PVP should restrict themselves only to mutual PVP. But when players ardently seek to ruin the fun of those who focus on PVE so as to drive them away from the game, a problem exists. Such behavior seems, at least to me, detrimental to the spirit of EVE.




Why do people think they should be exempt from the same rules as everyone else?

You joined a PVP game, don't be shocked that pvp will happen to you.


You clearly did not read my post. I do not have a problem with those who enjoy PVP. Were someone to engage me in PVP, I would have no problem with it. I would actually have fun attempting to escape.

My problem lies in the treatment of EVE by some as merely a PVP game. Tell me, were I to keep one of my characters forever docked in a station and focus purely on the roleplaying and social aspects of the game, would EVE still be a PVP game to me? I think not.

I challenge the notion that EVE must only be about PVP. And I also find it strange that a segment of the game population despises those who only enjoy PVE such that they want and attempt to make them quit.
Selene Nask
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#76 - 2013-04-14 19:25:43 UTC
Augustine Artrald wrote:
I have been playing EVE for a little over a week now, and I am a trifle confused by the hostility directed toward players who prefer or only care about PVE. Whenever someone suggests that EVE is boring and merely a spreadsheet simulator, plenty of EVE fans rally in defense of the game and argue that EVE is a sandbox--whatever the player wants it to be. Yet some players, several of whom have posted in this thread, seem focused on the idea that EVE must only be centered on PVP. Is it so hard for those players to accept that others might not actually enjoy PVP, might actually find it boring, and, yes, might actually prefer PVE?

I personally have no interest in the PVP aspect of EVE. Does that mean I should quit the game?

I am not suggesting that those who enjoy PVP should restrict themselves only to mutual PVP. But when players ardently seek to ruin the fun of those who focus on PVE so as to drive them away from the game, a problem exists. Such behavior seems, at least to me, detrimental to the spirit of EVE.





I'm new as well as I've posted about before. I do partake in some PVP but not a hole lot. I do enjoy it but I like the PVE aspects of EVE more right now and spend most of my time doing that.

The thing is even though I do like PVE and I don't particularly like PVPing while PVEing which is why I do almost all of it in highsec when I started playing the game I knew that it was game where PVP can happen, anywhere me liking it at the time or not.

This is what I read most people getting annoyed with. There is nothing wrong with mostly PVEing and liking the PVE part of the game more then PVP. It's people that choose to play a game with PVP possible anywhere and get upset that it does and sometimes to them. That is the main issue. The game is not and isn't promoted as one that is 100% safe from ever encountering PVP if you do anything but stay docked. If that's what people want then it isn't that game.

And frankly as a newbie I don't blame some oldbies getting annoyed at people with that sort of attitude. For the most part PVE in high sec is really, really safe. It's even quite safe (though less so) for people that don't pay much attention to what is happening around them. I barely ever bother to check local and look at who is in highsec for instance. Where in places like low and null when I'm PVEing it's my best friend.

My mining ship survived an attempted gank in highsec. Was it annoying? Sure. I really didn't want to do more then 'chill out' at the time but I sure wasn't boohooing about it happening or even caring why the gankers decided to do it. They do it cause they can and just because I was in pretty safe area relative to other areas there is not some guarentee that if someone feels like it, for any reason I can't get blowed up.

That the way the game is. It was this way when I chose to pay to play it. It's this way for anyone that chooses to play it. I really don't understand why people that never, ever want it to happen chose to play the game in the first place.




Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#77 - 2013-04-14 19:28:44 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Instead of picking on people in highsec who can't fight back and don't want to PVP?

I mean, the mining barges, PVE fit ships, etc that get blown up in low/null/wh space aren't anywhere as near as weak and defenseless as the mining barges and PVE ships in highsec, and they totally wanted me to drop a sb gang on them and kill their ship and pod, so it's ok if I gank them in low/null/wh space, but in highsec? Wow thats just griefing basically!


In case you didn't get it, sarcasm. I'm saying this "go to low/null/wh to pvp" line is stupid.


In EVE competition, conflict, aggression, territory and political movement Is the game.

Hi sec is a territory, no-one has any right to be there any more than anywhere else in EVE. If you want to play in hi sec you must prepare to defend yourself as is the throughout the entire game.

Please don't use words like 'grief' to describe what is simply part of the game. What you are doing is basically saying that taking someone's pawn in chess is 'grief'.

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#78 - 2013-04-14 19:32:18 UTC
Augustine Artrald wrote:
I have been playing EVE for a little over a week now, and I am a trifle confused by the hostility directed toward players who prefer or only care about PVE. Whenever someone suggests that EVE is boring and merely a spreadsheet simulator, plenty of EVE fans rally in defense of the game and argue that EVE is a sandbox--whatever the player wants it to be. Yet some players, several of whom have posted in this thread, seem focused on the idea that EVE must only be centered on PVP. Is it so hard for those players to accept that others might not actually enjoy PVP, might actually find it boring, and, yes, might actually prefer PVE?

I personally have no interest in the PVP aspect of EVE. Does that mean I should quit the game?

I am not suggesting that those who enjoy PVP should restrict themselves only to mutual PVP. But when players ardently seek to ruin the fun of those who focus on PVE so as to drive them away from the game, a problem exists. Such behavior seems, at least to me, detrimental to the spirit of EVE.




It's fine if you're not interested in PVP and prefer to focus on other things, so long as you accept that no matter what you do or where you are you're playing a PVP game and ending up in a PVP situation is a possible outcome. The people who can't accept or handle that probably should quit - and this isn't said out of anger or hostility, it's just the fact that it really, really isn't their kind of game and there's not much chance they'll find what they're looking for. Or they will, but someone will warp in and take it off them at gunpoint, and then they'll ragequit anyway
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#79 - 2013-04-14 19:36:19 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Augustine Artrald wrote:


You clearly did not read my post. I do not have a problem with those who enjoy PVP. Were someone to engage me in PVP, I would have no problem with it. I would actually have fun attempting to escape.

My problem lies in the treatment of EVE by some as merely a PVP game. Tell me, were I to keep one of my characters forever docked in a station and focus purely on the roleplaying and social aspects of the game, would EVE still be a PVP game to me? I think not.

I challenge the notion that EVE must only be about PVP. And I also find it strange that a segment of the game population despises those who only enjoy PVE such that they want and attempt to make them quit.


Saying I dont want to pvp means squat here. I can attack you at any time in space and even reach into stations to get you. This is a PVP game, there is no escaping this fact. You can try to only do pve things but if someone decides they want you dead for whatever reason there is nothing to stop them from attacking you.

The sooner people understand this the sooner they can get on with the game. The people that kick up an argument that they should be exempt from pvp because they arnt interested in it dont tend to last long.
Daimon Kaiera
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-04-14 19:40:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Augustine Artrald wrote:


You clearly did not read my post. I do not have a problem with those who enjoy PVP. Were someone to engage me in PVP, I would have no problem with it. I would actually have fun attempting to escape.

My problem lies in the treatment of EVE by some as merely a PVP game. Tell me, were I to keep one of my characters forever docked in a station and focus purely on the roleplaying and social aspects of the game, would EVE still be a PVP game to me? I think not.

I challenge the notion that EVE must only be about PVP. And I also find it strange that a segment of the game population despises those who only enjoy PVE such that they want and attempt to make them quit.


Saying I dont want to pvp means squat here. I can attack you at any time in space and even reach into stations to get you. This is a PVP game, there is no escaping this fact. You can try to only do pve things but if someone decides they want you dead for whatever reason there is nothing to stop them from attacking you.


Explain this, "Reach into stations."

.... . .-.. .--. / .. / .... .- ...- . / ..-. .- .-.. .-.. . -. / .- -. -.. / .. / -.-. .- -. -. --- - / --. . - / ..- .--. / ... - --- .--. - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / -. --- - / ... - --- .-.. . -. / ... - --- .--.