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Why don't gankers and war deccers just go to low/null/wh space????
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Josef Djugashvilis
#261 - 2013-04-15 13:30:02 UTC
Miilla wrote:
Why do you rob banks?
Because that is where the money is.

Why do you gank in highsec?
Because that is where the money is.


You are out of date on this.

Some of the tough-guy null-sec folk have been bitterly complaining that it was not fair as they could no longer gank miners for 2/6d a pop.

This is not a signature.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#262 - 2013-04-15 13:31:19 UTC
March rabbit wrote:
how is:
- sec status -
contestable asset??? Shocked
If you kill a rat with a sec status reward attached to it, you get that sec status reward rather than the other guy who was gunning for the same reward.

So if you don't want to PvP, you have to stay away from stuff that give you sec status at the expense of other people getting it.

Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Psychotic Monk wrote:
Close. We're bothered when CCP fits the tank for them, since they refuse to.

So, you will opposed to CCP gifting null-sec better production facilities, as some null-sec folk think the present arrangement is just too much like hard work for them.

Of course not. When CCP provides the means to be able to do the hard work to create better nullsec industry (something that was impossible, no matter how much you tried), it's a good change. When CCP removes the need to do the “hard work” of fitting a tank (something that was possible, but people couldn't be bothered to try), it's a pretty braindead change.

Enabling player choice ≠ removing the need for player choice.
Mocam
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#263 - 2013-04-15 13:31:55 UTC
Andski wrote:
Mocam wrote:
I thought the coddling of the worst players was the banning and suspensions on newbie station can baiters and such. Those newbie can baiter types follow the same basic rewards model that the bulk of your PvP players follow.


It's the buffs to exhumers (specifically AFK mackinaws) and the changes to wreck looting. The worst players are those who don't wish to play the game at all - those who mine AFK and haul on autopilot - and they've been coddled and enabled even more with each patch.

EVE is the only MMO I know of that allows for such passive gameplay that is hardly distinguishable from full-blown botting.


Never played SWG before it ended did you? "bots are us" would have been a better name for that game and it lasted a hell of a long time too.

Also, when they removed drone poo from that region and put in bounties instead, there went a huge amount of bots and a very large chunk of minerals - faucet added with sinks no longer used.

Old debate stuff on costs and values. I'm more in favor of mining style "wealth transfer" with sinks than additional "faucets".

As for AFK mining and auto-pilot hauling; let's avoid that along with "moon goo" discussions. They are 2 different excuses for what and how a given area of space operates and "should" tolerate.

I do think I've expressed my dislike of both a bit - albeit I have far less "frown factor" with moon goo (Yes, I understand how you can't run a war without empire level income to pay for ship replacement programs when players can't earn while fighting. No I don't agree with bloated empire level incomes while that aren't beating on each other enough to use it up.)

Also going from the original topic to these specifics -- it works I suppose but you went from generalities on highsec to specific points that wouldn't be resolved easily by the implied adjustments.
Dave Stark
#264 - 2013-04-15 13:32:32 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
The rapid proliferation of alts didn't really start until a couple years ago when PLEX was introduced. The first indicator was Incarna and how a alt based game can blow up in your face. Since Incarna didn't have much game mechanic changes, it was mostly people dropping alts or a number of high alt people quit, which then caused CCP to drop a large % of their staff as a result. Anytime you have a large portion of your business controlled by a small number of customers, one mistake can cost you dearly.

In regards to "stronger than ever" its hard to say due to CCP having no public metric on number of alt accounts compared to actual individuals. So where the game seems to be improving player base wise how many of those are actually players and not just alts is unknown. Also with null being for the most part stagnant, lowsec being terrible, and highsec being the target of rage of everything its hard to see Eve being at its peak.

E: Not saying Eve is dying, just concerned about CCPs focus on promoting alts instead of retention.


so nobody bothered with alts until plex.
plex is more expensive than regular subscriptions.

so there are now more accounts, paying more money.

gee, that sounds awful.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#265 - 2013-04-15 13:37:14 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

CCP can survive on alts, every accout gets paid for somehow. Beside,s the game is still growing with real actual new people, those that don't suck survive, despite what you want to believe.
If the gaming portion of humanity is too wussified to be able to accept potential loss of pixels in a video game, maybe EVE needs to die while it still has some dignity left.


Since when did Eve ever have dignity?

Also the first part is a very risky business model for longevity. One of which will probably be felt soonish.


10 years and stronger than ever, anytime now right?


The rapid proliferation of alts didn't really start until a couple years ago when PLEX was introduced. The first indicator was Incarna and how a alt based game can blow up in your face. Since Incarna didn't have much game mechanic changes, it was mostly people dropping alts or a number of high alt people quit, which then caused CCP to drop a large % of their staff as a result. Anytime you have a large portion of your business controlled by a small number of customers, one mistake can cost you dearly.

In regards to "stronger than ever" its hard to say due to CCP having no public metric on number of alt accounts compared to actual individuals. So where the game seems to be improving player base wise how many of those are actually players and not just alts is unknown. Also with null being for the most part stagnant, lowsec being terrible, and highsec being the target of rage of everything its hard to see Eve being at its peak.

E: Not saying Eve is dying, just concerned about CCPs focus on promoting alts instead of retention.


So you are saying that we have made 150,000 alts in the last few years?
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#266 - 2013-04-15 13:41:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
LittleTerror wrote:
... if I was a noob in my first mining ship, and barely able to fit a tank and someone came along...
I just want to address this. With beginning skills a Procurer fitted for max yield and a scanner, can use rigs and three mid slots for tank.

With low skills you can easily fit a med shield extender and a couple of resist amps. It you add that to three resists in your rigs you have a ship with mid 60 resists against a cat, plus some nice shield points. A solo CAT will not destroy you ship before Concord arrives (normally). With moderate skills you can get a second extender for your shields and two CATs might not be enough.

A Procurer costing in the area of 10-12M ISK fitted (which you can make fairly easily in two hours)... is cost wise in the same ballpark as a CAT. If the Gankers are losing three CATs (20-30M ISK ?) for every Procurer they are not going to be happy. Well most won't.

Most Gankers fall inside this... Tears <> ISK. Some might be all tears, while other might be all ISK... but often it is a combination. A Procurer tanked is a losing proposition for those after ISK; and for those after tears... just remember your losses are easily replaced... and you actually caused them more loss than you took.

The Retriever is a 'trap'... it can't be tanked effectively. As soon as you start to put any kind of meaningful tank on it... it mines less efficient than the Procurer and tanks worse.

A tanked Procurer won't stop you from being ganked, but your odds against it improved.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#267 - 2013-04-15 13:42:28 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


So you are saying that we have made 150,000 alts in the last few years?


Would that really be a surprise?

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#268 - 2013-04-15 13:46:04 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:


So you are saying that we have made 150,000 alts in the last few years?


Would that really be a surprise?


Yes, given the sheer numbers of newbee goons we have taken on over the last year alone and given we make up less than 1% of the population I find it hard to belive that EVE is mostly alts.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#269 - 2013-04-15 13:55:04 UTC
LittleTerror wrote:
I'm perfectly capable of avoiding ganks, however if I was a noob in my first mining ship, and barely able to fit a tank and someone came along and destroyed my ship in a highsec system for no gain other than to **** me off, i'd feel it was a bit unfair. Particularly if that ganker is virtually immune using their low skill point alt over and over and over again, so all i'm suggesting is a more balanced set of game mechanics because if these gankers are so ******* hardcore, then they won't mind having to fly their gank ships in from a lowsec system right?


All of EVE is PVP. Newbies need to learn this, lest they get the idea highsec is a safe themepark.
flakeys
Doomheim
#270 - 2013-04-15 14:33:27 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
LittleTerror wrote:
I'm perfectly capable of avoiding ganks, however if I was a noob in my first mining ship, and barely able to fit a tank and someone came along and destroyed my ship in a highsec system for no gain other than to **** me off, i'd feel it was a bit unfair. Particularly if that ganker is virtually immune using their low skill point alt over and over and over again, so all i'm suggesting is a more balanced set of game mechanics because if these gankers are so ******* hardcore, then they won't mind having to fly their gank ships in from a lowsec system right?


All of EVE is PVP. Newbies need to learn this, lest they get the idea highsec is a safe themepark.



Combining meme's in one sentence , you'd be a fine asset to the goon forummachine son.

Now go apply ...

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#271 - 2013-04-15 14:42:18 UTC
flakeys wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
LittleTerror wrote:
I'm perfectly capable of avoiding ganks, however if I was a noob in my first mining ship, and barely able to fit a tank and someone came along and destroyed my ship in a highsec system for no gain other than to **** me off, i'd feel it was a bit unfair. Particularly if that ganker is virtually immune using their low skill point alt over and over and over again, so all i'm suggesting is a more balanced set of game mechanics because if these gankers are so ******* hardcore, then they won't mind having to fly their gank ships in from a lowsec system right?


All of EVE is PVP. Newbies need to learn this, lest they get the idea highsec is a safe themepark.



Combining meme's in one sentence , you'd be a fine asset to the goon forummachine son.

Now go apply ...


You can send the 1.5bn recruitment fee to me. I'll make sure it gets to the right people.Cool

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#272 - 2013-04-15 14:59:58 UTC
ISK sent awaiting approval.

lolol
Zhade Lezte
#273 - 2013-04-17 23:36:37 UTC
To be fair I haven't seen all that many people in this thread asking for highsec mechanics to be changed.

If people want to merely mock me for lacking ~honoure~ for killing people in highsec and set themselves up with artificial standards, fine. I'll just mock their ~e-honourable~ attitude back Big smile

When it comes to game mechanics changes, the gloves are off.
Nathalie LaPorte
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#274 - 2013-04-17 23:54:13 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Augustine Artrald wrote:
I challenge the notion that EVE must only be about PVP.
Ok. So describe one thing you can do in EVE that is not PvP.


Organizing your hangars by colors, and within color groups, by qualitatively determined icon "mass".
Nerf Burger
Doomheim
#275 - 2013-04-18 00:26:15 UTC
because those players are cowards and only want to pvp with as little risk to themselves as possible.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#276 - 2013-04-18 01:19:50 UTC
Nerf Burger wrote:
because those players are cowards and only want to pvp with as little risk to themselves as possible.

So you're basically saying that people who PvP in highsec are cowards? primarily because they wardec and gank people who have no interest in Eve beyond the PvE and the seeming victimless industrial and market PvP?

This is not the game you are looking for.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
Tesal
#277 - 2013-04-18 01:29:38 UTC
I read this whole thread. I'm a lot stupider now.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#278 - 2013-04-18 01:34:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Tesal wrote:

I read this whole thread. I'm a lot stupider now.

[internet doctor]
Do you feel like playing a generic MMO?
If you do then basically you're screwed, otherwise, you'll be fine.
[/internet doctor]

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack
dark heartt
#279 - 2013-04-18 01:54:23 UTC
Oh is this thread still going?


If there is no rule against it in the EULA, it's fair game. /thread.

http://tetrisisunrealistic.blogspot.com.au/
Boozer Hoover
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#280 - 2013-04-18 04:31:16 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Instead of picking on people in highsec who can't fight back and don't want to PVP?

I mean, the mining barges, PVE fit ships, etc that get blown up in low/null/wh space aren't anywhere as near as weak and defenseless as the mining barges and PVE ships in highsec, and they totally wanted me to drop a sb gang on them and kill their ship and pod, so it's ok if I gank them in low/null/wh space, but in highsec? Wow thats just griefing basically!


In case you didn't get it, sarcasm. I'm saying this "go to low/null/wh to pvp" line is stupid.






Because gankers help hisec peeps stay on their toes if everything gets toooo easy then even hi sec peeps will get bored and leave the game.

Also because the occasional surprise beating really helps the ego.