EVE General Discussion

Protecting yourself is more than just tanking damage. And even if you do see it as such, you do have options.

You can:
- probe down and mine in gravametric belts. Your average suicide ganker isn't going to spend time probing down one or two barges when there are other systems with other belts with other miners in them.

- mine in missions. There are often asteroids that can be found in missions. Not the best quality of rocks around mind you... but as with gravametric belts, finding you requires probes and effort. And you have the added bonus of seeing them on D-scan well ahead of time if there are acceleration gates they have to navigate.

- if applying effort in the above two isn't to your liking, you can always fall back on the Procurer. With little effort you can make it such that it requires way more suicide gankers to kill you than they have the numbers for. Sure, you lose out on that big ore hold and you won't be mining fast... but that's the price you pay for "safety."

tl;dr... make it harder for gankers and you'll be passed over in favor of targets that are "squishier" and easier to find.


A well tanked Mackinaw in 0.7 space takes a minimum of 5 or 6... more if the Exhumer has siege warfare links applied... and even more if a logistics ship or Orca is providing remote repairs.

Believe me... I know. I've failed to gank barges because of those things.


Citation please. Because most of the killboard numbers run by people much smarter and more well informed than me suggest ganking of barges is at all time lows.


Oh ffs...

If you can't afford to potentially lose it... don't buy it and don't fly it. You HAVE other options (*cough*the Procurer*cough*).

I have the capacity to fly any Tech 2 sub-capital combat ship I desire... I even have the ISK to do so. But I don't. Because there are other and often cheaper options for me to choose from that can accomplish the same goals, or close to.

The price you pay for Tech 2 ships is in the EDGE they provide within a specialty... not overall better effectiveness.


Is there an echo in the room?

- A Retriever is designed to hold a large amount of ore at the cost of yield and tank.
- A Coveter is designed for maximum yield at the cost of ore hold and tank.
- A Procurer is designed to tank large amounts of damage at the cost of ore hold and yield.
Noticing a theme here? Choose the ship that bests suits your circumstances rather than whine about why one ship can't do everything you want it to.

So I shouldn't do something in this game because you don't enjoy it? How does that logic work?



Right, so you should find a way to make money in EVE that you enjoy doing for its own sake. Gankers tend to enjoy ganking for its own sake.



Yes, the carebears have made that assumption. The problem is that that assumption is objectively wrong.
Proof:
1) In a sandbox game, if something is allowed, it will occur.
2) Shooting people in HS is allowed.
3) Therefore, shooting people in HS will occur.
4) A game designer will only allow or continue to allow something to occur if they intend it to occur.
5) The game designers allow and continue to allow shooting people in HS to occur.
6) Therefore, The game designers intend it to occur.

By the way, if they were actually avoiding it "at all costs" they'd be playing on SISI where PvP without specific consent outside of certain areas is not allowed.

there was not word "me" in this quote. Personally i like to do missions but it's common fact: repetitive tasks tend to lead to boredom. Boredom leads to quit.


i'm fine with that. But you haven't mentioned FUN. You only mentioned "reliable making money" which is not fun (well some people say carebears have fun of making money tho)



Yes, the carebears have made that assumption.[/quote]
only if you speak about goons and other "l33t pvpers". Because carebears never say they need to move to 0.0 or CCP HAVE TO move lvl4s into low- or 0.0.

And ganking is not boring to the people who do it. So "it's boring" isn't a reason not to do it. Well, it is, but only for the people who get bored doing it, but that heads off onto a weird and irrelevant tangent.



Where did I claim I was presenting an exhaustive list of the reasons why people gank?



That doesn't make any sense.
How does calling for a reduction in the income that can be earned in the extraordinary safety of HS mean that you subscribe to the (incorrect) assumption that PvP doesn't belong in HS?

More importantly, how does it relate to this thread?

…which is pure fiction, not a fact. It's easy to protect yourself against a ganker. It's even reasonably easy to protect yourself against two gankers. Three becomes tricky without help, unless you want to restrict yourself to 1.0 systems, but that's as it should be since 3 > 1.

Do you know why? Because for as long as I have been in the game, miners have put max yield builds on their barges and exhumers and then complained on the forums when they get ganked. If there are miners who don't do that, they're so few and far inbetween that they fall within the margin of error and we can still quite safely say that all of them do exactly what you describe.

…and you can provide evidence to back these claims up, I suppose? It would be very interesting to see, considering how increasingly rare ganks have become over the years.

It already is. They just have to learn to fly and fit intelligently and not try to rely on SP and ISK to protect them. Numbers and location and scouting will help them far more (and teach them far better lessons) than going for the most inefficient — and ultimately counter-productive — way of staying safe.

I'm quite rational, yes, which is why I recognise it as horribly unfair if you could simply throw ISK at a problem to make it go away. Fortunately, CCP have largely left the idea of ISK as a balancing factor behind them. These days, ISK buys you marginal improvements in a single are — e.g. the more expensive exhumers are better at mining than the less expensive barges — which is already a bit too much.

Since a mining ship costs 50M, you should take care to protect it, and the game offers a multitude of means of doing so — making it more expensive just happens not to be one of them.

Someone stole your face while you wern't looking.

be aligned to a station. Watch local (especially for small spikes) use d-scan to look for destroyers, or finally fly with a properly managed mining OP.

If your not prepared to do any of these then mine in higher security space.

The sec system doesn't stop at 0.5.

A couple of comments from a newbie miner. In high-sec I've had an attempted gank once. I happened to have my retriever tanked so I survived. A corpie also new got ganked and didn't survive. He didn't have a tank. I also have a couple of corpies that have mined for a couple of years and have never been ganked. Even though I have experienced a gank myself I know it's pretty rare and in HS something I barely worry about. So much so that I'm usually tabbed to another character when mining. It's also a known risk and higher where I mine because it's right next a low-sec entrance with several known pirate groups.

I'm now a miner that fits for maximum yield when in HS. Why? It's not because I don't know better. It's because getting ganked happens so rarely that even if it does the cost of getting a new barge is outweighed by the amount of ore I regularly bring in. Its a loss easily absorbed. I knowingly increase risk for yield and chosen to take the consequences of doing so. It's the balance between personal risk and reward that makes EVE interesting to me and the game gives a player oodles of choice in deciding where the balance point is for them.

If I started to be ganked more regularly then I'd be more concerned. I'd either move areas and/or tank my ship. If there are indeed areas where people are getting ganked so much that it seems epidemic (when stats say that overall it's not) and they for whatever reason can't handle the stress and frustration I would suggest moving because in my experience there are a good many areas where a 'gank' rarely if ever happens.


All it took for me to get some perspective of the 'threat level' in HS was to do some mining in LS. After that HS mining, even with the odd ship loss now and then, is easy isk mode.

CCP has already provided ample opportunity for people to choose ways of doing things that match up with how much they're capable of handling to lose. Most of these choices I've learned are about trade-offs. There isn't one thing or way that will give perfect everything. I don't think it should. It would hardly be game otherwise.

Behold all ye whiners, a REAL eve player. One who knows the risk and accepts it as the cost of doing business rather than cry about it.

Can a supporting Orca use warfare link for shield/armor instead of the cap usage and range for laser for example? That would technically help in a fleet right?