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KARIN MIDULAR IN COMA; REPUBLIC DEMANDS TRANSFER

Author
Tobias Annages
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-04-12 17:24:52 UTC
http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/world-news/karin-midular-in-coma-republic-demands-transfer/

Luminaire – Sebiestor Tribal Chief Karin Midular is in a medically induced coma and has suffered extensive brain trauma, the Scope has learned, after being shot in the head on Thursday by a lone gunman in a rampage that left 58 dead and 304 wounded. According to reports from her doctors, the severity of Midular's injury is such that cloning is considered impossible, as any brain scan would return incomplete results.
Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-04-12 17:56:30 UTC
Get ready for the angry claims that the Federation is now holding Midular hostage.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#3 - 2013-04-12 18:02:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Elsebeth Rhiannon
Hostage or no, Ray of Matar has been shot and might die of it. This is a Sebiestor matter and should be handled by the Sebiestor. Federation's utter lack of co-operation, to the extreme of sending a military fleet to stop Republic forces from crossing the border to handle the matter, is outrageous.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Sebiestor
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#4 - 2013-04-12 18:06:37 UTC
Hadrian Tivianne wrote:
Get ready for the angry claims that the Federation is now holding Midular hostage.


Comments like this do nothing to foster any sort of cooperation or trust between our people. You really should stop.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Hadrian Tivianne
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-04-12 18:11:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Hadrian Tivianne
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Hostage or no, Ray of Matar has been shot and might die of it. This is a Sebiestor matter and should be handled by the Sebiestor. Federation's utter lack of co-operation, to the effect of sending a military fleet to stop Republic forces from crossing the border to handle the matter, is outrageous.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Sebiestor

Ah, yes. And of course, because you believe it to be outrageous the Federation would send a military fleet, you must also feel it to be outrageous that the Minmatar would breach Federation sovereignty. You can't have one and not the other. If the Federation fleet had hopped the border to get a head start then you would have an argument. As it stands, the RSS made an illegal military crossing. I don't think that's even debatable at this point, given what went down.

Whether or not Midular should be transferred is another matter. Personally, I agree she should be transferred to her people.

And those people should not start whining about the Federation's lack of care if she dies on the trip.

Anabella Rella wrote:
Hadrian Tivianne wrote:
Get ready for the angry claims that the Federation is now holding Midular hostage.


Comments like this do nothing to foster any sort of cooperation or trust between our people. You really should stop.


No.

It is an observation, not even a personal opinion. But if we're really going to go down this path I feel it's important to note that an offhand remark is significantly less detrimental to cooperation than a military fleet.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#6 - 2013-04-12 18:19:20 UTC
These events strike very close to my heart.

I hope that all of the Sebiestor understand what a delicate and grave situation Mrs. Midular is in now - I cannot stress enough how dangerous it would be for her to be moved or interfered with. She needs peace and well-wishing to surround her now, not politics and confusion. At the moment, she has confusion enough.

I urge all of her esteemable Tribe to stand in solidarity with her at this critical juncture. As she served you to strive for lasting peace, now she needs you to stand for peace while she is unable.

Though it may be grim, she is not lost to you yet.

Prayers and well-wishes, Mrs. Midular. You aren't alone.

- Scherezad
Makoto Priano
Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#7 - 2013-04-12 18:32:24 UTC
While I fully trust that Gallente medical personnel are giving Ms. Midular the aid she requires, it would still behoove the Federation to allow a Matari medical team to observe and assist. If they deem that she is in a condition that would allow transport, then the Federation should bow to the Matari doctors' wishes.

Sovereignty is a sensitive matter. Given the alliance between these two powers, it seems entirely reasonable that neither should be issuing demands or refusals, but attempting to negotiate the delicate path to a solution.

And there -is- a path, so long as the powers that be decide to treat this matter with the care it deserves.

Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

Narcisa De Fontaine
Core Medical Group
#8 - 2013-04-12 18:33:04 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:
Hostage or no, Ray of Matar has been shot and might die of it. This is a Sebiestor matter and should be handled by the Sebiestor. Federation's utter lack of co-operation, to the effect of sending a military fleet to stop Republic forces from crossing the border to handle the matter, is outrageous.


It makes me sad to read things like this.

Forgive me if this sounds insensitive, but the treatment of Karin Midular is not currently a Sebiestor matter. To make it a Sebiestor matter at this stage could well cost her life, and to count another death as a result of this attack is the absolute last thing anybody wants.

Any 'force' attempting a border crossing without permission into a sovereign state can count on being challenged, friend or not, ally or not. RSS can't expect special treatment and understanding when they tear off on a tangent like that. I certainly cannot fault Roden for declining to entertain an armed fleet of Matari with an axe to grind over how this sorry situation ever came to pass in the first place. Friends don't do what the RSS tried to do.

I understand you don't like it, I guess I wouldn't either if I was Sebiestor, but please respect our house and our rules. We want the same thing you do - to return Karin Midular once she is recovered, and learn the truth of what's behind this.
Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#9 - 2013-04-12 18:42:00 UTC
I think we need give Karin Midular to the Republic, we don't want here to die in our hospital that's why we should do what they ask us this time.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#10 - 2013-04-12 18:45:22 UTC
If Midular returns to Minmatar space in her current condition, she will die.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori

Stitcher
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-04-12 18:46:01 UTC
Does anyone know if she has clones in "cold" backup storage? It seems to me like somebody as important as Midular should have that kind of safety yet, and yet it's not been mentioned.

Actually, scratch that. Her right to patient privacy has been ignored enough already.

AKA Hambone

Author of The Deathworlders

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#12 - 2013-04-12 19:00:35 UTC
I don't think backups of tribal leaders are matters anyone should publish here, even if they knew about such things.

Quote:
Forgive me if this sounds insensitive, but the treatment of Karin Midular is not currently a Sebiestor matter. To make it a Sebiestor matter at this stage could well cost her life

Only if you assume that the Federation is unable to hand control of her treatment and security to Sebiestor personnel while she remains on Gallente soil. Which is a statement in itself.
Nicolas Merovech
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-04-12 19:06:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicolas Merovech
The Republic must realize that citizens of the Federation were also killed and injured in the attack, which also occurred in Federal territory. While Minmatar citizens were also injured and killed, demanding the expedition of the shooter to Republic custody is unreasonable. On the subject of transferring Midular into Minmatar care, I urge the Republic to remove emotion from the equation and do what is best for her. Her condition is very precarious, even in a planet-side hospital. There is no way she would even survive the transfer onto a medical vessel.

What happened in Bei is an example of emotions running away from reason; thank the Spirits that no one pulled a trigger. The Federation and the Republic are close allies; warship standoffs between them shouldn't be happening. I propose that Minmatar doctors travel to Midular in Gallente space. That way, everyone is happy and Midular gets the care she needs.

However, we cannot forget the others that were wounded in this tragedy. We must look past the political hubub that only one victim out of over 300 has caused and assist these survivors and their families in any way we can. Also, when the identity of the shooter is revealed, I will personally be looking into his motives and tracking his accomplices. This was no random act of violence, whoever executed this has experience in covert operations. That being said, we must discern who was behind this attack and why; attacks on civilian populations will not be tolerated.

Dr. Nicolas A. Merovech, Ph. D, M.D.

Narcisa De Fontaine
Core Medical Group
#14 - 2013-04-12 19:14:03 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:

Only if you assume that the Federation is unable to hand control of her treatment and security to Sebiestor personnel while she remains on Gallente soil. Which is a statement in itself.


Which Sebiestor personnel are you talking about specifically? Are they the best qualified neurosurgeons on hand? Are they on the spot at the time, well rested and ready to go to work?

I'm not so eager to keep it all in the Sebiestor family that I'd fantasize that as a solution to the Matari crisis of confidence in us. As priorities go, I think the ethnicity of the people treating Karin Midular shouldn't really be near the top of the list right now.

We want her to survive, with all her faculties intact. To get the desired result and salvage her from this entire affair it doesn't matter whether her doctors are Gallente, Intaki, Sebiestor or Ni Kunni, as long as they're the best we have available.
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient
Electus Matari
#15 - 2013-04-12 19:35:20 UTC
The Ray should indeed be treated by the best allied medical personnel for the job. And if those medics are Gallentean by birth or by citizenship, so be it.

But the people deciding that she will be should be her tribe.

I am sure you understand the difference.
Theobar Cresthill
The Arzad Hamri Fellowship
#16 - 2013-04-12 19:58:25 UTC
Sympathy: "I'm sorry this happened to you."
Empathy: "I grieve as if it happened to me."

What we need are Federation leaders who balance the demands of sovereignty with empathy for an friend who is feeling a loss beyond the description of mere words. Mr. Roden, put aside your political sensibilities for a moment and allow empathy to temper your judgment. Invite Mr. Shakor to meet with you at the hospital. Put you hand on his shoulder and say that you grieve with him and mean it.

Balance the values of the medical community and their truma orientation with the fact that the soul of your closest friend is in pain.

Big egos need to give way to big hearts. Cool heads need the warmth of compassion if the heat of war is to be avoided.

"The fire in our hearts burns for salvation, redemption, and grace. May the Word of God grant you the courage to save yourself and your people" (The Last Words of Arzad Hamri)

Narcisa De Fontaine
Core Medical Group
#17 - 2013-04-12 20:00:01 UTC
Elsebeth Rhiannon wrote:


I am sure you understand the difference.


I do understand the difference. This is made difficult because it's happened while she's away from home. I don't envy the doctors at Caille feeling the weight of people's expectations.

You're frustrated because you don't feel we understand your nature. Would you at least believe it's not in our nature to do anything less than our utmost to save her?
Anslo
Scope Works
#18 - 2013-04-12 20:19:56 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
While I fully trust that Gallente medical personnel are giving Ms. Midular the aid she requires, it would still behoove the Federation to allow a Matari medical team to observe and assist. If they deem that she is in a condition that would allow transport, then the Federation should bow to the Matari doctors' wishes.

Sovereignty is a sensitive matter. Given the alliance between these two powers, it seems entirely reasonable that neither should be issuing demands or refusals, but attempting to negotiate the delicate path to a solution.

And there -is- a path, so long as the powers that be decide to treat this matter with the care it deserves.


She's right. The LEAST the Federation could do is let some Sebbie docs in to help out. For all you know, they may know a few Minmatar specific medical tricks that no doc in the Fed would know.

The military getting antsy about Matari ships coming in, I sort of understand. I emphasize SORT of.

Not letting medical personnel in? What the hell Roden? What's wrong with you?

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

Vikarion
Doomheim
#19 - 2013-04-12 20:21:12 UTC
This is insanely stupid. The people of Midular have the right to her return; she should be with her people, on her own soil. And this pap about Midular not being able to be moved...it's insulting. Do they really believe that the Minmatar have no doctors as good as those in the Federation? Do they really believe that a top-of-the-line Republic hospital ship is not as capable as a Federation hospital?

This attack on a Republic official occurred on Federation soil - a signal failure by the Federation to exercise security precautions in defense of a foreign dignitary. The least that can be done is to return her, and end this condescending crap.
Anslo
Scope Works
#20 - 2013-04-12 20:31:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Anslo
Vikarion wrote:
This attack on a Republic official occurred on Federation soil - a signal failure by the Federation to exercise security precautions in defense of a foreign dignitary. The least that can be done is to return her, and end this condescending crap.


Aside from you stirring **** along with everyone else who'd like to see the Federation get into a **** show, you're wrong about moving her.

Clinically, the patient has suffered deep neural damage from what I believe was a semi-automatic rifle. Assuming this was NOT done with an electrically based weapon such as a rail rifle or other magnetic field utilizing weapon system, a projectile being lodged in there is...approachable but still no laughing matter.

I know more about infectious diseases, bacteria, and virology, and Stitcher can correct me if I'm wrong here, but typical brain trauma at this point is a highly sensitive matter due to the sheer amount of hemorrhaging occurring within the brain. That blood is irritating neural tissue causing it to swell, badly.

Bleeding can occur inside the brain, between the brain and the membranes that cover it, between the layers of the brain's covering or between the skull and the covering of the brain. It can literally be anywhere. And I doubt exploratory surgery in this situation is something ANYONE wants to do. The slightest error in movement could worsen it beyond repair.

And this is just stationary. If an attempt is made to move her onto a ship, no matter how advanced, that hemorrhaging could worsen and kill her before she hits the deck of the ship.

NOW.

That being said, there's still absolutely ZERO excuse not to let Minmatar doctors assist in the situation in a cooperative clinical team during the situation. They won't give a name, a face, nothing about the killer. The least you jokers in the political and policy making sphere could do is let a gods damned DOCTOR IN WHO IS FROM AN ALLIED ENTITY.

Morons.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]

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