Player Features and Ideas Discussion

You cannot talk about gun balance and ignore everything they relate to.

And what the point of this ? If your ship is more effective with 2ACR, why should it be able to fit the guns without the ACR ?

Isn't the abaddon a better ship for your job for example ?

What about the cap life of this Rokh BTW ? I bet it's not even half of your apoc !

Since apparently you have trouble reading ... MEGA BEAMS not Tachyons ... M-E-G-A-B-E-A-M-S

Even the Megathorn has enough grid for 8 425s and an armor repairer ...

as for Mega Beams vs 425's... the proper comparison is with Tachyons. They are in the Large Beam Laser grouping, ergo, they are not (flavor text to the contrary) actually an "over-sized mod". These beam lasers were always intended to be fit to Battleships, and as such when the largest long range turrets of the other races are held up for comparison, the proper Beam Laser to use is the Tachyon.

[Translation]
I don't care about lasers or balance I want railguns buffed.
[End Translation]

I don't understand why you're even in this area of the forums ... take it to the Gallente are awesome area and let those of us that actually use lasers and Amarr ships to find a balance ... at no point have I been irrational about a balance point ... I just want some parity .. if my gun is going to do the same damage as yours .. it shouldn't take 50% more grid and 3x the power

Could you actually read what I write please ? It's boring.

I already said it : I don't want railguns to be buffed, because they are in a good place. I only want them to not lose their place because of selfish amarr carebears.

Yes it should take more PG and more cap to use beams than railguns. That's life in EVE, deal with it. If you want to know why, just look at the stats of your ships.

Know, if you actually want to discuss the proportions of the cap and PG beams need, through a fit, so we can actually have a base to discuss on. I won't do it, because 1) you don't care about what I write ; 2) I'm not good at pve fitting ; If you show me fit, I'll actually be able to work on it and see the problem.

I'm here to help, because you are unable to build a constructive argumentation, based on facts which matter, to prove that beams need less fitting, if they do.

[translation]I tryed to understand, but my brain overloaded, so prefer to insult.[/translation]
I may be wrong, my english is not that good, but I don't see how this kind of coment could contribute to the thread in any, not even insignificant, way.

If there is some worry by CCP that giving the Apoc and the Abaddon more PG so they could fit Tachyons because that would make MegaPulse fits overpowered. Then I would propose they just add a little PG to Large pulse lasers to compensate.

But there still should be an across the board decrease in laser cap use about 37.5% for large lasers. Or make them about twice as cap intensive as Hybrids three times as much.

Ideally this ratio of cap use would trickle down to Med and Small lasers.

Here you go. I'm not that great with fits, but I'm curious what you'll think. I'm not that smart either, apparently. First up, the Rokh.

ROKH SNIPER FIT PVE (220 dps tank, 544 damage/sec w/ antimatter, 408 w/ thorium and you can't target further than that- I don't know if hybrids use tech II ammo or not.)

x8 425mm Railgun II's

x1 MJD
x2 Adaptive Invuln Field II
x2 Large Shield Extender
x1 Tracking computer II

x3 Mag Field Stab
x2 Shield Relay Control

x2 Large Core Defense Purger I
x1 Large Hybrid Collision Accelerator

Obviously I have no idea what I'm doing with shield tanks, but seems...respectable. A decent tank, though it's designed to MJD away if things get to close. Cap lasts for 6 min 57 seconds, a bit longer than most people aim for when doing missions, but not too bad. needs a 2% PWG mod to fit everything, but hey, could just take off the collision accelerator instead.

Now the Abaddon. Those of you who avoid battleclinic may want to avert your eyes. This is ugly. Keep in mind post-patch this could be swapped out for an Apoc, but the damage would go down, as would the tank.

ABADDON-SNIPER FIT PVE (774 dps with Gleam, and 442 with Aurora, 239 dps tank)

x8 Tachyon II's

x1 MJD
x3 Cap Recharger

x2 "Trebuchet" Heat Sinks (No room on cpu for tech IIs)
x1 Reactor Control Unit II
x2 EANM
x1 Large Armor Repairer
x1 Tracking Enhancer I

x1 Ancillary Current Router
x2 Capacitor Control Circuit

Wow! So much more damage! Well... kind of. The Abaddon has a 25% damage increase, but not like that damage increase matters because WITHOUT the repairer going, just firing it's guns, it lasts for 2 minutes and 40 seconds.

Does that help draw a comparison in your mind, Bouh? The Rokh is passive regeneration, which means it can't turn a repper off to gain more cap, only guns. But the Rokh lasts for twice as long, with 5 slots devoted to cap regeneration.

I can't believe I actually made these fits, someone shoot me.

Anyways, even after the Powergrid changes, there will still need to be at least that Ancillary Current Router, maybe a second one. If anything, with this current iteration of changes, my "fit" might by flyable with all skills at level 4, if only because a second low slot would be open (not that this fit can do anything with another lowslot, given the cap). I dunno, I doubt I changed your mind since the sheer damage is so different, even after explaining that the Abaddon has a 25% increased damage bonus.

Rokh is definitively better in this case. Only by swapping out the low slots for more cap recharge do we get something that is cap stable guns firing for an "acceptable" amount of time, while the damage done with gleam is limited to 18+20km or so. The Rokh (which does have a range bonus) with antimatter has a min range of 50km. With the MJD, they should never be close enough to hit you (ideally) anyways, or for very long.

Tracking doesn't matter as much, since the guns aren't going to follow smaller ships that well anyways, and current NPC intel is "fly straight at the dude".

With a 20% cap buff, things get better, but keep in mind this is with all skills level 5- I shouldn't need a max skillpoint character to run level 4 missions.

The reason I mentioned the damage bonus is because a better comparison would be the Apocalypse, though with my version of EFT, I can't fit Tachyons onto the Apoc accurately. The Abaddon has the same powergrid, and is a "better" platform for tanking/damage. The tanking numbers get worse on the Apoc, as does the damage, both of which will fall to lower than the Rokh, while the range might be comparable.