Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Indeed, and I certainly don't want them to over-boost the cap rechargers should they like the idea of it... I'd hate to get used to using them then a few years later face a reset like is hitting Tracking Enhancers with Odyssey... alot of proj and hybrid users moaning about that one, lol! But I think if they can come up with a relatively small but noticeable change, preferably even at first making it potentially too small, would be a good start, as if it's too small it'd be easy to later give it a little more, and then not have the QQ of cutting it down if they go too high.

The reason I think the comparison is accurate is, intuitively speaking, difficulty to fit and fly a ship should go UP as you go up the ship tree, not DOWN, right? Therefore, you need skills to close the gap. It doesn't make sense for ships to be easier to get into as you move up (barring skills, of course). Ships are harder to fly as you go up, and need training. If it didn't work this way, it would only make sense for noobs to jump into the highest caliber ships they could afford, since they would be easiest to fit and fly. Someone would only move downward in ship size for a specific need (a fast tackle, for instance).

Think about it. Frigates are the first ships noobs get into. They aren't particularly difficult to fit or fly, otherwise noobs wouldn't be flying. However, noobs can't fly Titans.

So the point was, I could fit and fly a caldari battlecruiser easier than I could fit and fly an amarr omen, and I've actually trained some skills in amarr.

Now do you get my comparison?

So you are saying that fitting gets easier as you go up, and noobs have it the hardest because they are on the bottom. Doesn't make sense to me, but I guess it is what it is.

Either way, I guess I could load up EFT with a harbinger and see what it says as compared with drake.

I do not know about others but my skills are not yet completely up to 5. And the fitting I have done I always fit abaddon with cruise missile launcher (which is btw taken away!) with beams since my tank and range with pulses is not yet desirable. I find several advantages by fitting this launcher a) it reduces energy consumption b) it balances PWG / CPU need for weapon system c) it makes me just tiny bit less vulnerable for TD.

What most people fail to see in this post and I think that our beloved CCP devs too is that. For low skill levels at least it makes really much sense to actually use that launcher slot (which is taken away!!). So for what odyssey changes basically mean for me personally is that I will need to fit 8 turret since there is no option anymore. This increases the cap consumption of my weapon system actually by 1/7 ~= 14.3% not 10% this also means my PWG need increase is almost same amount (launchers used to take lot less power to fit than turrets).

So with up coming BS changes for low skill level pilot these changes are must.. People think that they are buffs, no they are not buffs they are simply changes you have to make for taking off the launcher slot. Which I deeply dislike. Yes it does make some people life better that liked to fit 8 beams before. But I see that pulse fits are very popular due pulses can reach up to almost same distance with right fitting, take way less PWG begin with, better tracking eases you to hit small targets even quite close range. Pulses still remain quite good maybe too good compared to beams.

What I am sad to see is that caldari get their new BS size drake/tengu. That will be superior in PVE in many aspects. And Amarr get nerfed and balanced to crap.

Not to appear to be offensive, but the answer to that is the same one the rest of us already either face of have dealt with... train up the skills.

Not saying that Tach's at a minimum if not Beams in general shouldn't have more attention paid to their PG use.

Not saying that both Pulse and Beam lasers still present too large of a hurdle in regards to cap consumption despite the changes.

And as I'd hope you've taken the time to read this thread before making your post, you already know that from my previous posts.

Opps, wrong thread, moving now.

I still think its absurd that the apoc can't fit tachyons. The attack BC can fit the attack BS's guns, but the Attack BS can't? How the **** does that make sense?

Tachs are already countered by their cap use, you shouldn't need TWO fitting mods JUST to fit the guns. I'm less annoyed with the tach fittin issues on the geddon/baddon because they are combat ships, but on the apoc, that should be an easy fix.

Again, this is not, I want two 1600 plates and full tachyons. It's simply I want tachyons and room for ANYTHING else. As is, you can't even fit all the guns, let alone any prop mod, or armor plates. I know attack ships are meant to be low EHP, but a glass apoc is a bit ridiculous don't you think?

THAT, or, make the dps of tachyons actually WORTH the huge compromises you have to take to fit them.

So, to get rid of these tachyon cries, here some brain food :
Take a standard Rokh like this one.
This Rokh have the following damage curve :
antimat : 541@65km
uranium : 451@95km

155kehp

Notice that this fit is NOT cap stable (8 min 35s with antimat).

Now, let's see this tachyon abaddon :
[Abaddon, tachyon]

1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Damage Control II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Large Micro Jump Drive
Medium Capacitor Booster II, Navy Cap Booster 800
F-12 Nonlinear Tracking Processor, Optimal Range Script
F-90 Positional Sensor Subroutines

Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet L
Tachyon Beam Laser II, Imperial Navy Ultraviolet L

Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Ancillary Current Router I
Large Trimark Armor Pump I

This abaddon is actually 1,6% over in PG. It will fit fine with odyssey. With the cap booster, you are cap stable at 54% with ultraviolet. 21,'58" w/ XRay ; 4'36" w/ multifreq. That will improve with odissey.
The numbers now :
multifreq : 770@37km
ultraviolet : 577@64km
aurora : 446@132km

129kehp
50% more tracking than railguns.

If you buff tachyon further, all the Rokh will have is good resists, because the abaddon will be better in any other way. Besides, I think support ship are better in armor setups than in shield setups, which could largely compensate for the resists of the Rokh.

The problem of beams is not fitting, it's that they are sandwiched between scorch and railguns. We need either to nerf scorch, slightly increase optimale range of mega beams, or both to leave them a place ; or we need a new role for this weapon, which would be the best solution of all but need a good idea.

If tachyon fitting and cap use is buffed further, then railguns will die.

Heh, not so much. Scorch is the only thing balanced or competitive about lasers, besides the fact that they are utterly cool.

I assume you were talking to the troll, I have him blocked, but it would be quite typical for him to be whining about railguns.

Anyway, the problem is not so much Scorch being OP in and of itself, it is OP compared to the pathetic lot that is the entire other crystal spectrum except Imperial Navy Multifrequency.

They can even start to talk about thinking to nerf Scorch once they have given us even a semi usable set of crystals besides Scorch.

To be clear, I'm not saying these changes are bad. I'm saying that you cannot further buff tachyon without breaking railguns.

PS : thanks to the balancing apprentices who are clearly saying that they don't care about railguns ; we now know, at least, that you are completely partial and actually don't care about balance.