Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Indeed, once I finally was flying the Legion, I quickly dropped flying my old mission Abaddon, which I had to use 2 T2 and one T1 CCC rig on, and without cap implants, 4 T2 cap rechargers, and since some missions I needed dual reppers to deal with the incoming fire (despite the hull resist 25% bonus and that I was specifically fitted to resist the mission damage profile), I also had to have a low slot cap implant and shut off half my guns to avoid dying. (and that was fitting Imp Nav L reppers)... overall rather insane, considering every other race can set up perfectly fine L4 BS fits without losing essentially 8 fitting slots to cap. Now, with the laser cap fix we are getting, this will be a little bit easier, I believe this will cut this old fit down to just needing 6 fitting slots to be cap stable... but explain to me how I should even consider that to be reasonable, when every other race is able to set up their ship to tank and deal full dps while at most giving up 1 fitting slot to cap?

Compared to the other three races perhaps, but from a game balance viewpoint I'd say Amarr has the only truly balanced ship line in Eve.
Ships are perfectly fine on 'their own' in small skirmishes, but when skirmishes turn into battles or right-proper shindigs that drag on and out there should be an almost mandatory requirement for logistics support .. bombing a single village is easily handled, but bombing an entire country takes a ton of background operations to be in place first.

Question is if CCP would rather take the rage by nerfing three races or our gratitude for taking us on-par .. or in other words, will they chose the good for the game option or the good for their sleep pattern options

Honestly, I don't mind, especially for our BS, that Amarr need high skill levels to compete. In fact, I take a bit of perverse pride in that, to be Amarr, you have to be dedicated. Yes, I have the skills to fly caldari and use missiles. Yes, I have the skills to fly Minnie and use projectiles. Yes, I could make my life simpler and use their hulls especially in things like L4 mission running. But I love my lasers, demmit! And to be perfectly honest, we shouldn't be required to fit 6 to 8 times more mods and rigs for cap then any other race. You all keep trying to use examples of why lasers beat Artillery for DPS, or Blasters for Range, and your missing that it's designed to be this way, lasers have always and will always be the "middle ground" weapon. But, that does put us squarely between the frying pan and the fire as well... we get too far, the one fries us, we get to close, and the other burns us. In short, we need our slots and rigs to tank or to fit for range dictation or attempt to do a little of both, and instead we are consistently forced instead to use them for cap.
Tachyon's vs 1400s, yes, we should have to give up a low or rig slot just as they do for an effective fit, but that is not the case even with these changes. Instead, we're forced to use that slot just to fit the weapons, and if we want to even try to fit a tank, then we also have to use even more!
Pulse vs Blasters, yes, we should have to work a little for our cap over them, because we most definately out range them... but then because we have to give up all our rigs (which they are using for tank) and most if not all of our mid slots (which they are using for range dictation) and the hulls that use either can fit a strong tank to compete with each other...
What is really funny is I started writing those last two sections with PvP in mind, and I realize that that does still come across... But by the end of it, it also definately points out overwhelming deficiencies on a PvE level as well.

Maybe stop trying to be capstable on pve ship ?

As I said, amarr never had any problem competing in pvp. You know, I could say the same sort of wall of text argumenting on how hard it is for gallente to run their active tank, their MWD and stay at range to apply their blasters damages ; or about how one tiny mistake turn your flying garbage, erh, minmatar ship, into a floating garbage ; or how caldari ship are only sitting still, awaiting to die because their missiles don't kill their ennemy fast enough.

The problem is that it is how the races works. Eacdh time you simplify the life of a race, you bring it closer to the others, and one day, they will be all the same.

Except here we've had a ship get a nerf both to its total capacitor and to a bonus that reduces turret cap use by up to 50%. Asking CCP to reevaluate their position which will make a ship considerably less attractive when it wasn't that great to begin with is pretty sensible.

Just learn to do missions please. NPC stop shoot you when they are dead...

As for tha Apocalypse capacitor, you should read again : Capacitor (amount / recharge rate / recharge per second) : 7000(-500) / 1002s(-152s) / 6.99 (+.49)

None of the amarr BS got a nerf to capacitor, only the cap bonus gone ; a bonus amarr whine about for being useless for years.

No wonder the whining anymore, people didn't even read the tha amarr BS OP...

And no, it wasn't a useless bonus, it was a bonus that should have been built into the weapons from the start. The reason people complained is because it was a bonus necessary to make the ship workable, not a bonus that actually made the ship better at what it was supposed to do. Removing the bonus is damaging, and the changes to the weapons don't adequately compensate for this.

I love Amarr ships even more just reading that.

Many more likes you can expect!

As stated large energy turret energy use needed already balancing before. As some people already stated long time.

Personally I do not like that amarr are so now deeply tied to lasers. By removing launcher slots from the ships and adding turrets to popular fits you also icrease energy consumption yes pwg.. So all these changes were needed.

There are several issues that involve amarr ships in PVE.

* high cap consumption
* tough to get viable tank at 3-5 skills (required skill level for tanking will still be deep due to cap need and tank)
* multiship TD combined to cap neut, compared to angel target painting these are too severe. Which severenes you btw increase by increasing amarr ship tiedness to lasers.
* cap charge size / ship ability to carry them. We need perhaps hold for booster charges or way to carry them more.

This changes is good, but its not enough. Lasers are not enough. Armor tank scaling in PVE with lower skills. Blood / Sansha EWAR seriousness.

Putting aside the cap need for a second, I think that the over arching, endemic problem may be quite a bit different than what everyone is hitting on so far. This only really hits larger fleets fights fyi.

The two greatest strengths of amarr BS doctrine is the tank and scorch crystals (imo). Fry your enemy from 50km (abaddon, scorch) or 75km (apoc, scorch) before they can get into optimal range, and tank them while they move in. Sniping was hurt pretty badly with on-grid scanning+ warping but can be mitigated somewhat by bubbles and maneuvers. That covers everything past 150km. The new MJD covers everything at 100km. A pulse apoc is good to 71+13 using scorch and 1 TE. If you're being burned by scorch crystals at 70km, MJD towards the enemy fleet, and you land either in or almost in point range, depending on fleet boosts/overheat.

I think the problem is actually making too many fleets viable at too many things. Am I crazy in thinking this? Gallente whined for years about having to get in close. You're a space shotgun, king of sub 15km ranges. Deal with it! Know when to fight, when not to fight. Amarr were good from 15km out to 80+km, where sniper fleets start taking over. That's essentially the middle ground. Maybe because we were the well rounded before--and other races were more specified to a certain range doctrine or fight styles--we were still relatively balanced. But Gallente are best at blaster range (and can get on top of you if you're at 100km or 150km+ depending on your fleet fittings), and everyone else can alpha you from range. Our middle ground sweet spot has been essentially made available to the other races, leaving us with little to define what we're good at other than our carrier's EHP, which even now is getting a hit.

Does that make any sense to anyone else? Don't let tiericide = homogony. There needs to be (significant) differences in what the different races are good at and how they're geared toward fighting.