Player Features and Ideas Discussion

But if new players weren't gimped using the ship with lower level skills. What is the point of having the skill at level 5? As much as it's trying to be balanced between new and older players, you have to remember that older players have been training for these ships to be effective for years! Changing that would make this game almost entirely pointless.
-Buhhd

So what!

It doesn't matter that it gives a powerful bonus to all types of tanks! That is the point! It makes the ship versatile rather than being pigeonholed into one optimal fit.

And a nerf to resistances will not do anything to correct the perceived problem. The perceived problem seems to be that remote repair is too effective in a large blob fleet.

If I am in a PVP fleet, I am relying on a combination of buffer tank and remote reps. The resistance bonus helps make those two methods effective. With a good buffer, I have time to call for remote repair from my friends. This is especially important with an armor fleet, where reps land at the end of the cycle. Once those reps land, they are more effective than if they landed on an unresisted hull. Nothing wrong with that, it makes remote repair effective.

The resistance bonus is powerful, to be sure, but it is ultimately what makes the tanking option effective. Nerfing armor/shield resistances simply means that blob fleets will have to bring a few more logistics ships, increasing the overall size of the blob. Or, it may mean that a couple more doctrines add another EANM to the fit, lowering the overall DPS/Alpha of the fleet, and further encouraging a fleet to bring more ships to the fight.

This nerf seems to be a belated rage against the old Drake-blob... nevermind that no one flies the Drake blob since that already got nerfed into the ground.

As for slowcats, there is a really good counter to that doctrine. You just have to have the testicles to employ it.

I know I'm very late to this party, but my recommendation would be to extend repair amount bonuses to both local and remote repairs. It would open up a lot of different ships to be fleet doctrines. I don't have anything against this slight nerf and agree with it, but in addition to the reduction in resist bonuses to 4% CCP should open the booster bonused hulls to remote boosting. That will open a bunch of minmatar and gallente ships to fleet doctrines.

Even though I'm in a big 0.0 bloc, I like small gang and often, even a 10 ship fleet will have a couple of T1 logi cruisers (thank you Fozzie). Remote reps, in my opinion, encourages cooperative play and cooperative play is really what makes Eve fun.

Leave as it is on ships smaller than BS.
On BS class reduce it by 1%
Remove it on all capital/super capitals.

Sounds good on paper, but how do you propose one goes about killing an all rep + logi (Incursus/Brutix/Myrm/Hype) fleet without bring the exact same? It would break both on the small as well as on the large scale .. as evil as a resist decrease is, it is the lesser of the evils available.

If such a bonus were to be applied, it would have to be on attached to a module available to everyone such as buffer modules. Something as simple as +7.5% remote armour received per plate might work .. more plates, more returned .. fit gank and fill your lows with small plates for maximum RR loving and prey to your deity of choice that the enemy doesn't have some of the new Geddons to **** your logis up

Well, I'm sure we'd agree that the shield boost bonused ships are "fine" because of ASBs. There's been endless bitching about them being overpowered. I don't see any complaints about the hawk, cyclone, sleipnir or maelstrom being underpowered.

So, they're nerfing 44 ships because the incursus(which I think is fine as is), the myrmidon the astarte the eos [and non sleip command ships blow anyway] the hype(which is looking pretty damn good on paper now) are not "in line".

Buff the armor rep amount bonus on those ships. 10% per level. Fixed.

I support this change. It sure beats nerfing everything else.

With sub-level 5 skills, you are in essence using a sub-standard version of the hull- with covert ops previously, it was so bad, it was unusuable, because the nerf for not having level 4 or 5 skills was substantial. The same goes for the resistances. Because it's such a strong effect, level 5 becomes mandatory, because anything apart from it is hamstringing your effectiveness with the ship.

By narrowing that gap without changing the result (e.g. move 5% of the bonus onto the hull, drop the bonus to 4% per level), you actually accomplish to move the end-result (high resists) onto the base hull somewhat and highlight any potential imbalances for any individual hull far better on a hull by hull basis, while making the ship far more usable at low skill levels because its performance will not be so distant from the maximum.

To do a little more practical math with a practical Rokh fit, there was a 13k EHP difference between level 1 and level 5. After the change, that would drop to a 9k difference (making stopping/making do at level 4 that bit less painful).

That isn't to say that you can't go too far in the other direction and make a bonus pointless and ineffective- but that obviously isn't the case here with a bonus everyone agrees is strong. You have to tune the effectiveness of the ship- how the ship looks with all level 5 skills- separately from how quickly and how much skills contribute to that effectiveness.

In practice that means that for pure amount repped over time, a 25% resistance bonus is only 3% less powerful than a 37.5% rep bonus.

As an avid flier of resistance bonused ships, this will kill the usefulness of most if not all of them (and being honest here, most of those fits were pretty 'meh'.) I don't see why if it's currently less effective than shield boost / armor repair bonuses you want to further the distance between them. Almost any fit I see used by other people either takes the resistance bonus into consideration and focuses on increasing amount repaired or boosted through mods, rigs, or multiple reppers/boosters, or is a repair/boost bonus that focuses on adding resistances.

My end stance is that I am very sad to see the death of resistance bonused ships, but at least you didn't entirely remove this bonus or go even further with it. 6 feet under is plenty for most bodies, no need to be excessive.

I am curious why ship resistance bonuses aren't being reworked in the background on natural ship attributes, and using a new or different bonus in exchange.

"In practice that means that for pure amount repped over time, a 25% resistance bonus is only 3% less powerful than a 37.5% rep bonus."

This bears repeating. It doesn't overshadow the bonus to a specific tanking type bonus - those tanking type bonuses are still better on self-rep ships. It's just that those self-rep bonuses do not make ships better for fleet combat. Resistance bonuses do work for fleet combat or self-rep set ups.

With all the drama about resistance bonuses, it bears mentioning that the Maelstrom, not the Rokh is the most common fleet BS. The Maelstrom is clearly crippled by its active rep bonus.