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The Great Null Sec Push
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Biomass This
Doomheim
#101 - 2011-10-18 01:05:26 UTC
maybe all we need is smoething called myspace. not to be confused with the web stuff.

jsut like somehwre i can call home and bild as a small player without having to get beaten up by the big players all day...

i get the reward risk ideels, just dont see why i can't get staretd in space and have risk only if i try to expand to big.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#102 - 2011-10-18 01:06:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
Mara Rinn wrote:
Only if you're looking at ways to make ISK while active at the keyboard. Read the Making ISK guide for more ideas of how to make ISK while not sitting at the keyboard.


i am fantastically eve rich and I rarely do much of anything, I simply use the fact I know more about this game than more than 99% of the eve population to profit buying and selling things around patch time

however, this is not something I can tell new 0.0 players to do

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2011-10-18 01:10:02 UTC
Gealla wrote:
In a game loudly touted as the worlds most premiere sandbox MMO, to have one group of players telling another that they need to play a certain way is probably the most ironic thing of all.


Did you really just reference the "sandbox" to defend people who only interact with developed content and shun the very player driven content that actually makes the game a "sandbox"?

Well done.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#104 - 2011-10-18 01:14:59 UTC
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Gealla wrote:
In a game loudly touted as the worlds most premiere sandbox MMO, to have one group of players telling another that they need to play a certain way is probably the most ironic thing of all.


Did you really just reference the "sandbox" to defend people who only interact with developed content and shun the very player driven content that actually makes the game a "sandbox"?

Well done.

Nah, poster is right.

It IS a sandbox as long as you play it MY way. Common theme 'round here.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#105 - 2011-10-18 01:23:41 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
plus when it gets down to it, if you're playing eve just for pve you really are playing the wrong game: mining, ratting, missioning, plexing, these are all ******* terrible pve.


Which reminds me: if you want people to move out to null sec, don't invite them out to null sec and then mug them the moment they jump into EC-P8R.

"OMG, we can't do industry in null sec. Need farms and fields to burn!"

"OMG, hisec industrialist carebears won't come out to nullsec to be burned? Why?"

"OMG, easier to haul stuff from Jita rather than buy it locally! WHY IS NULLSEC MARKET SO BAD?"

Nullsec: full of terribad clueless alliances since 2003.

The JB nerf didn't go far enough. We need mineral compression and stargates nerfed too: mass limits per jump/hour, with upgrades possible through Stargate Reinforcement Units. That will give you small targets worth fighting over, especially since the pain of logistics will reinvigorate T1 manufacturing and kill Jita.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#106 - 2011-10-18 01:24:16 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Gealla wrote:
In a game loudly touted as the worlds most premiere sandbox MMO, to have one group of players telling another that they need to play a certain way is probably the most ironic thing of all.


Did you really just reference the "sandbox" to defend people who only interact with developed content and shun the very player driven content that actually makes the game a "sandbox"?

Well done.

Nah, poster is right.

It IS a sandbox as long as you play it MY way. Common theme 'round here.


well, there's two reasons for this

first, as I mentioned, part of the sandbox is mostly cat pee

second, the most fun thing you can do in the sandbox is make a sand throne and lord it over the peasants in the sandbox, and for that, someone's got to be a sand peasant.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2011-10-18 01:25:54 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Nah, poster is right.

It IS a sandbox as long as you play it MY way. Common theme 'round here.


That's a **** poor understanding of what makes Eve a "sandbox" game. By that logic, warcraft is also a "sandbox" game, which completely neuters your own argument.

The key point about "transitioning" is that it takes prodding, help, incentive structures, and all manner of other **** to get people to actually stop playing "warcraft in space" (and an absolutely terrible version of that), and get them to a point where even they will admit they are having far more fun.

Nobody cares about the guy who will never under any circumstances try anything beyond what he is spoonfed; seriously, those people are absolute non-issues. We care about the massive percentage of people who are attracted to the game for its player driven content, yet somehow fall through the cracks because CCP as designers and we as a community fail to provide the proper environment.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#108 - 2011-10-18 01:26:47 UTC
Mara Rinn wrote:
The JB nerf didn't go far enough. We need mineral compression and stargates nerfed too: mass limits per jump/hour, with upgrades possible through Stargate Reinforcement Units. That will give you small targets worth fighting over, especially since the pain of logistics will reinvigorate T1 manufacturing and kill Jita.


no it won't, it'll mean nobody lives in nullsec. people may control parts, but they'll live in torrinos and just travel out to control tech moons. why live in vfk when 0.0 has everything that much harder? if nobody lives in vfk, what's the point of fighting over it?

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#109 - 2011-10-18 01:27:20 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
plus when it gets down to it, if you're playing eve just for pve you really are playing the wrong game: mining, ratting, missioning, plexing, these are all ******* terrible pve. they're unimaginably bad: you really should be playing a different game if that's what you want to do. eve's two unique features are it's real-loss nature, and it's amazingly complex economy. If what you're doing in eve doesn't involve one of those two, you're playing a game that is completely outclassed by most of the competition. EvE is about building sandcastles and knocking them over: playing it for any other reason is stupid. Not stupid in the sense that people who enjoy those things are stupid, but that playing eve is such a terrible way to scratch that itch. this isn't insulting (except to whoever developed those parts of eve) but they're just terrible. Play WOW or some other game that's a cooperative PvE mmo, or play a single-player game. You'll have a lot more fun.


Strangely I even agree with you in some points... again. It almost physically hurts to agree with a Goon.

I agree that what makes EVE great is the paranoia and the constant fear of real loss and the amazingly complex economy.

Now, mining, ratting, plexing are all the fuel of said economy AND the PVP. Shiva/Diva thingie... Can't destroy without someone building and some people like building/creating more, but will never be safe from those like destroying things. I like both.

So do most of my friends.

What you guys don't realize sometimes is you don't have to be a Goon or 0.0 dweller to get that feeling.
While I'm almost grateful you pull your Ice Miner stunt there, as it helps me to make our noobs more aware of what EVE is.

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Teamosil
Good Time Family Band Solution
#110 - 2011-10-18 01:27:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Teamosil
There are three types of players that play eve- ones that prefer playing solo, ones that prefer being in small corps and ones that prefer being in bigger corps. Any realistic plan to draw people out of hi sec needs to work for all three types of player. You can't just strongarm everybody into joining one of this handful of huge 0.0 alliances. Lots of people just don't think that sounds fun at all. They'll stay in hi sec or quit if that's the only real choice for progression. The people that are inclined to join those kinds of corps are already out in 0.0 anyways.

The people who are kind of stuck in hi sec are people who want to play solo or in a small corp. They aren't going to be heading out to 0.0 any time soon. The mechanics there slant the game so severely in favor of the big corps there that they can't really make a go of it there. For them, the most realistic options outside hi sec are low sec and wormholes. If you really want to get people out of hi sec, you need to be thinking about how to make those zones more viable. I get that 0.0 is probably getting pretty dull. I have no objection to buffing it a bit and giving them some new content and fixes. But the core problem is people wholing up in hi sec and buffing 0.0 doesn't address that issue really.
Gealla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#111 - 2011-10-18 01:27:31 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Elise DarkStar wrote:
Gealla wrote:
In a game loudly touted as the worlds most premiere sandbox MMO, to have one group of players telling another that they need to play a certain way is probably the most ironic thing of all.


Did you really just reference the "sandbox" to defend people who only interact with developed content and shun the very player driven content that actually makes the game a "sandbox"?

Well done.

Nah, poster is right.

It IS a sandbox as long as you play it MY way. Common theme 'round here.


well, there's two reasons for this

first, as I mentioned, part of the sandbox is mostly cat pee

second, the most fun thing you can do in the sandbox is make a sand throne and lord it over the peasants in the sandbox, and for that, someone's got to be a sand peasant.


Lmao, this also is very very true..

But unless you throw the peasants a bone occasionally, they get bored with the sandbox and go play in the park instead, leaving you king of an empty pit...

There's very few bones left in this game tbh
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#112 - 2011-10-18 01:30:07 UTC
Gealla wrote:

Lmao, this also is very very true..

But unless you throw the peasants a bone occasionally, they get bored with the sandbox and go play in the park instead, leaving you king of an empty pit...

There's very few bones left in this game tbh


yes, I agree. there's nobody left to lord over in 0.0 because nobody wants to live there, so it's just the same jaded old vets.

so, we come lord it over ice belts, cause what else are we gonna do.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Thomas Orca
Broski is ded
#113 - 2011-10-18 01:31:38 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Gealla wrote:

Lmao, this also is very very true..

But unless you throw the peasants a bone occasionally, they get bored with the sandbox and go play in the park instead, leaving you king of an empty pit...

There's very few bones left in this game tbh


yes, I agree. there's nobody left to lord over in 0.0 because nobody wants to live there, so it's just the same jaded old vets.

so, we come lord it over ice belts, cause what else are we gonna do.


Take more ****** unneeded regions for ***** and giggles?
Aidan Brooder
Dynasphere Ltd.
#114 - 2011-10-18 01:34:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Aidan Brooder
Weaselior wrote:
Gealla wrote:

Lmao, this also is very very true..

But unless you throw the peasants a bone occasionally, they get bored with the sandbox and go play in the park instead, leaving you king of an empty pit...

There's very few bones left in this game tbh


yes, I agree. there's nobody left to lord over in 0.0 because nobody wants to live there, so it's just the same jaded old vets.

so, we come lord it over ice belts, cause what else are we gonna do.


*Dingelidong*

"Oh, look! The Iceman arrived! Two cubes of Straziatella, one strawberry and one chocolate, pls..."

No, re-shuffling some resources will not change anything...

Blog: http://aidanbrooder.wordpress.com My EVE Playlist on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSNuHY7z8n1q1BdLvW2verIfH8vvWtz_x
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#115 - 2011-10-18 01:34:59 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
It IS a sandbox as long as you play it MY way. Common theme 'round here.

This is rich coming from the guy who wants CCP to break the sandbox and make highsec miners completely safe.
Adelphie
The Lone Wolves.
#116 - 2011-10-18 01:35:38 UTC
CCP does not need to change things radically, they just need to make the different areas of the sandbox unique enough to make sure that all the kiddies don't huddle in one corner.

I don't buy all the crap that highsec is full of carebears who only want safe space. WH space is the perfect example of this.

In the sleeper loot CCP introduced a new feature which is unique and profiable enough to entice people out of empire through creativity and genuine advancement in the game. Wormhole space is arguably the most dangerous space in the game, yet industrials, miners, pvers and pvpers alike have been lured to take a risk because of the unique gameplay, high reward and ease of access. The risk of WH space is rarely a factor for people.

High Sec isn't full of risk averse people - it's full of sensible people who balance risk, reward and gameplay.

It's Nullsec that's full of sadomasachists like me...
Gealla
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#117 - 2011-10-18 01:40:56 UTC
Weaselior wrote:

yes, I agree. there's nobody left to lord over in 0.0 because nobody wants to live there, so it's just the same jaded old vets.

so, we come lord it over ice belts, cause what else are we gonna do.



Heh I remember BoB having the same issue some years ago... a total standings reset seemed to fix that and hilarity ensued Lol
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#118 - 2011-10-18 01:42:56 UTC
Gealla wrote:
Weaselior wrote:

yes, I agree. there's nobody left to lord over in 0.0 because nobody wants to live there, so it's just the same jaded old vets.

so, we come lord it over ice belts, cause what else are we gonna do.



Heh I remember BoB having the same issue some years ago... a total standings reset seemed to fix that and hilarity ensued Lol



it's not that we have no enemies, it's that there is no one left to fight we haven't been fighting forever, it's just not new

bob had their boredom fixed that by a plucky alliance full of newbies that burst onto the scene and systematically evicerated everyone between scalding pass and delve

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Elise DarkStar
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2011-10-18 01:44:46 UTC
There are some very good points being made here, and I just want to make it abundantly clear that I (and I assume others who are arguing similar points) are in no way, shape or form talking about forcing everyone to become peons in massive nullsec alliances. Far from it. If anything, huge nullsec alliances are more of a hindrance than a help.

However, there is this very tangible barrier that everyone who has left the hisec belt or lvl 4 mission hub had to cross, and I guarantee the the vast majority of us have absolutely zero regreats about doing so as it opens an entire new world of gameplay that is not available in any other game out there, no exaggeration. We want to help other people cross that barrier because we know how hard it can be, we know you'll almost assuredly appreciate it, and finally because then we get to play the game with you as friends, allies, enemies, whatever. It's not even a matter of leaving hisec so much as it's getting out of those gd belts and mission hubs and interacting with other players on a substantial level.
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#120 - 2011-10-18 01:48:00 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
it's not that we have no enemies, it's that there is no one left to fight we haven't been fighting forever, it's just not new

Get Mittens to reset Test and that problem is solved.