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The Great Null Sec Push

Author
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2011-10-17 19:42:23 UTC
Infinimo wrote:
TriadSte wrote:
Ah yet again we see dedicated 0.0 moaning about high sec and how 0.0 is far greater isk income.

Could it be that actually you can make damn good money in empire and that the dedicated 0.0 dwellers are jealous?

I think so indeed.

hahahaaahahahah
seriously
is this guy for real?
lmao


Of course? theres so many 0.0 players bitching about empire and why? why would 0.0 ***** about empire...

1. You have everything playable that empire has.

2. You have 5-10 plexs, empire only goes to 4

3. You have ABC empire don't

4. You have Ice belts the same as empire.

5, you can mission run, incursions etc.

Yet you lot still continue to ***** about empire. The biggest player base are empire players, fact is fact. CCP will not take everything out of empire to push us into 0.0.

The only reason why you players ***** is that truthfully, solo pvp is dead. Its a blobfest anywhere you go. You want more people to kill. Truth is truth.

The ONLY things worth anything in 0.0 is Tech and officer/faction rats. I can't think of anything else at all and yes my alt lives in 0.0.
Zirse
Risktech Analytics
#62 - 2011-10-17 19:43:29 UTC
The funny thing is- all of the things you read here about large alliances simply aren't true unless you're in a terrible alliance.

I have never been a cog in a machine, nor has there ever been a CTA. I'm free to do whatever the hell I feel like doing in nullsec, and I x up on big fleets because I enjoy them, not because somebody threatens me.

If I want to take a group of people and **** off and do wormholes for a few weeks, or black ops **** on the otherside of the map I can. But I also have a huge support network that facilitates those kind of things and makes playing EVE as easy as possible.

You want to know why the CFC is so successful? Simple; they have a few incredibly devoted individuals who make the jobs of your average pilots 10x easier to have fun doing the things they want to do, which is blow **** up.
Goddess Ishtar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#63 - 2011-10-17 19:43:57 UTC
Sebero Sinak wrote:
2. If they have read forums they probably believe they will be a cog in a machine being told what to do.

3. They have heard the stories of CTA's where you supply your own ship, organize for hours and something may or may not happen - including losing your ship in a hopeless fight.

If anybody belongs to an alliance like this they are p dumb. You don't have to join up with the first crappy corp that spams something in the Recruitment channel...look around and find one that doesn't treat their members like slaves.
Eternum Praetorian
Doomheim
#64 - 2011-10-17 20:22:16 UTC
Goddess Ishtar wrote:
Sebero Sinak wrote:
2. If they have read forums they probably believe they will be a cog in a machine being told what to do.

3. They have heard the stories of CTA's where you supply your own ship, organize for hours and something may or may not happen - including losing your ship in a hopeless fight.

If anybody belongs to an alliance like this they are p dumb. You don't have to join up with the first crappy corp that spams something in the Recruitment channel...look around and find one that doesn't treat their members like slaves.


I have a number of friends who have been in Goon(dot)

At least half of them left because they felt that way. Sounds to me like your doing the classic "Trying to make everyone else play the game like me" troll, and masking it in a "My alliance is awesome" post.



I go into nullsec every night to PVP.
I lead roams there EVERY night.
I refuse to live there... because the sov mechanics suck and so do the people who "rule it"



So I live in Empire instead.

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Sarrgon
Avalonians United
#65 - 2011-10-17 20:35:14 UTC
I think this winter expansion will be very important for CCP, 2011 hasn't been the best year for them, they lost so many subscribers and players faith in them. Now granted, they can't please everyone with anything they do. Someone will always complain. I know so many are waiting on the winter expansion and if it is like incarna, they will most likely lose more people, then with Incarna.

I know in my mind on what I would love to see CCP do to make this game better, as all of us have ideas on what we feel would make the game better. All they can try to do is appease as many people as they can. Though I do wish they would listen to the player base more, seems everything they try to do to make the game better in their minds kinda backfires on them Shocked
Feligast
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#66 - 2011-10-17 20:46:33 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Goddess Ishtar wrote:
Sebero Sinak wrote:
2. If they have read forums they probably believe they will be a cog in a machine being told what to do.

3. They have heard the stories of CTA's where you supply your own ship, organize for hours and something may or may not happen - including losing your ship in a hopeless fight.

If anybody belongs to an alliance like this they are p dumb. You don't have to join up with the first crappy corp that spams something in the Recruitment channel...look around and find one that doesn't treat their members like slaves.


I have a number of friends who have been in Goon(dot)

At least half of them left because they felt that way. Sounds to me like your doing the classic "Trying to make everyone else play the game like me" troll, and masking it in a "My alliance is awesome" post.



I go into nullsec every night to PVP.
I lead roams there EVERY night.
I refuse to live there... because the sov mechanics suck and so do the people who "rule it"



So I live in Empire instead.


*shrug* Then they lied to you, or you have an axe to grind. Both of which I would bet are true.

I've seen you roaming down in null. Glad you're having fun playing eve your way!
Goddess Ishtar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2011-10-17 20:48:17 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Goddess Ishtar wrote:
Sebero Sinak wrote:
2. If they have read forums they probably believe they will be a cog in a machine being told what to do.

3. They have heard the stories of CTA's where you supply your own ship, organize for hours and something may or may not happen - including losing your ship in a hopeless fight.

If anybody belongs to an alliance like this they are p dumb. You don't have to join up with the first crappy corp that spams something in the Recruitment channel...look around and find one that doesn't treat their members like slaves.


I have a number of friends who have been in Goon(dot)

At least half of them left because they felt that way. Sounds to me like your doing the classic "Trying to make everyone else play the game like me" troll, and masking it in a "My alliance is awesome" post.



I go into nullsec every night to PVP.
I lead roams there EVERY night.
I refuse to live there... because the sov mechanics suck and so do the people who "rule it"



So I live in Empire instead.

We don't have a dot in our name so your friends are dumb.
Skunk Gracklaw
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2011-10-17 20:59:50 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
I have a number of friends who have been in Goon(dot)

No you don't.
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Midgard Academy
#69 - 2011-10-17 21:09:01 UTC
Im sorry is this a rumor thread? I havent seen any stances from CCP about incursion nerfs.

Why Can't I have a picture signature.

Also please support graphical immersion, bring back the art that brought people to EvE online originaly.

JitaPriceChecker2
Doomheim
#70 - 2011-10-17 21:14:12 UTC  |  Edited by: JitaPriceChecker2
well i lived in wormholes WH nerf is totally bad.

I am a null sec player atm but i lived in wormholes for more then a year. WH mechanics are fun , there is plenty of ships destroyed , carebearing is dengerous , all within a spirit of the game.

Any wh nerf is without merit.

As for hi sec i would love to see it removed ...
The Apostle
Doomheim
#71 - 2011-10-17 21:21:35 UTC
JitaPriceChecker2 wrote:

As for hi sec i would love to see it removed ...

What has mommy told you about playing with yourself. That's what you'll be doing.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#72 - 2011-10-17 21:37:43 UTC
Eternum Praetorian wrote:
Goddess Ishtar wrote:
Sebero Sinak wrote:
2. If they have read forums they probably believe they will be a cog in a machine being told what to do.

3. They have heard the stories of CTA's where you supply your own ship, organize for hours and something may or may not happen - including losing your ship in a hopeless fight.

If anybody belongs to an alliance like this they are p dumb. You don't have to join up with the first crappy corp that spams something in the Recruitment channel...look around and find one that doesn't treat their members like slaves.


I have a number of friends who have been in Goon(dot)

At least half of them left because they felt that way. Sounds to me like your doing the classic "Trying to make everyone else play the game like me" troll, and masking it in a "My alliance is awesome" post.



I go into nullsec every night to PVP.
I lead roams there EVERY night.
I refuse to live there... because the sov mechanics suck and so do the people who "rule it"



So I live in Empire instead.



Almost the same here. I don't go into 0.0 for PVP but I do use wormhole bridges to get there for exploration.

As for actually living there? Forget it.

Seriously:

Quote:
I also guess that 0.0 alliances are very valued helpers of CCP - you start your computer and get logged in to several EVE-related jabber channels automatically; you fetch a cup of coffee and spend the next 20 minutes getting up to speed reading alliance forums, you are growing tired of EVE but instead of quitting EVE you just stay subscribed to play WoT, HoN or BC2 with your (EVE) alliance mates; you are watching a movie when suddenly ping the jabber broadcast comes in that hostile supers are tackled - after logging in you find out they were tackled by some Rifter in the belt but you don't go back to watching TV anyways; ...



So THAT's what the zombies are doing when there is no living flesh in site to scream at and devour? That's like using Eve as an FPS game. No wonder they rage at AFK cloakers. You pop in and their other games are being disrupted. Solly solly so solly.

CCP hates lone wolves. Period. I say again that the day will come when they will come up with a mechanic that blows your ship up for undocking when not in fleet or corp (almost got that with Incursion).

But those of us who are not all about being a perpetual ISK-earning machine will probably hang on. For how long? Who knows. If they get rid of cloaks in their present form without getting rid of local, and get rid of local without improvement to scanning mechanics, and don't do something about blob warfare and gatecamps that form a wal around high sec (hence the need to use wormholes to get around), we'll probably be dumb enough to simply log on for a while just updating the skill queue and hoping for a better day or for more live events.

What I wonder is, is this misguided ideas at CCP or the result of endless lobbying by people with personal agendas? Some people will use an aimbot in an FPS and still think they are leet, so I guess some people see complaing and whining as just another module.



Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Adelphie
The Lone Wolves.
#73 - 2011-10-17 22:01:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Adelphie
Let's try this again. The forums ate my first post... Straight

Over the past few years I've flown almost entirely as a small gang and solo pvper in null/lowsec and in my honest opinion there has never been a time when null has been in more need of something being done to refresh it. When I began the game nullsec was a fluid environement, with constant territorial conflict small and large scale fights and a genuine feeling that things could change at any moment in the political landscape (see goons vs BOB). Over the past year or so things have just become a little stagnant.

I'm not one to complain about the effects without understanding the cause. The honest truth is that currently highsec is more fun to be in, has more social interaction and is probably more dangerous than most of null - so why leave? As an example I recently flew an unscouted battlecruiser through 7 hostile nullsec regions looking for fights and came home without a fight to my name... not even a blob. This does not marry up with the general highsec player's view that null is cold, harsh and dangerous - which it should be.

Is nerfing highsec the answer to returning null to its glory days? Probably not. Moving things out of highsec will just **** off the existing highsec playerbase and lacks a bit of creativity. Players need a carrot and not a stick change their gameplay. They need the promise of unique, exciting and accessible gameplay that is not available anywhere else whilst fixing the mechanics which have caused null to stagnate. Furthermore players need to feel that null is accessible for the smaller corp or fledgling alliance - something CCP has committed to do (but seeing is believing).

Personally I have never had more fun than participating in nullsec activities. Be it that adrenaline rush before you enter a fight where you have no idea who will be the victor, or the brown trouser moment where you're in a plex and your overview fills up with neutrals... but all of these require residents in null for that to happen. CCP need to start the virtuous circle of getting people to want to come to null by making it somewhere which fun and unique.

The only problem is that I don't know what that inspiring piece of gameplay is ...Blink

Adel
Cyprus Black
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#74 - 2011-10-17 22:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Cyprus Black
Kaethe Kollwitz wrote:
1. WH nerf
2. Hi sec war nerf
3. Hi sec incursion nerf

It all points the same way, the long awaited 'push' to get players into null sec is in action.

Is it a coincidence that the CSM is primarily composed of null sec alliances at this point in time?
here are extracts from a high level conversation:

"damn, we dont have enough noobs to shoot here in null sec, what should we do?"
"lets convince CCP that null sec is the future of the game and encourage them to hit hi sec with the nerf bat"
"hey great idea, im on it"

In all seriousness can I ask, is this REALLY the time to be doing this?

post incarna, post Aurum, post 10k average players logged in drop - this is the time to make the push is it?

For anyone out there wanting to run a sucessful MMO, start one up now, and whenever CCP do something do THE EXACT OPPOSITE! You will be millionaires in no time.
This is wrong the way CCP is going about it. You can't push players out into 0.0 by making all other space less appealing. The problems with 0.0 will still exist and players will feel like CCP is intentionally making the game bad. The only real way to get players into 0.0 is to make it more appealing and fun. More profitable isn't necessary as it's already profitable to be out there. Despite the profitability, the majority of the playerbase is saying no to 0.0.

The problems come from shoddy sovereignty mechanics, terrible POS mechanics, lack of direction or reason to hold sov, difficulty in small corps/alliances setting foot in 0.0, super mega alliances steam rolling the little guys who are trying to wedge their way in, so few industry slots in stations, few if any stations, and poorly distributed system resources.

As it stands now, Wormholes are the 0.0 for corps/alliances who don't want to be decimated in a matter of hours after setting up in null sec.

Summary of EvEs last four expansions: http://imgur.com/ZL5SM33

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#75 - 2011-10-17 22:29:34 UTC
0.0 drives what makes EVE great: great conflicts and the like, that attract people to the game

however, due to a number of botched ccp decisions, it's not actually worth being in 0.0; there is no carrot to emerge from empire to try to make your way in 0.0 and challenge the big boys

goonswarm, almost half a decade ago, became the driver of EVE's conflict and virtually everything interesting about 0.0 in EVE has involved goonswarm, because goonswarm was a disruptive force that shattered the old empires of eve and allowed a significant influx of new players into 0.0: raw newbies, rather than a new alliance made up of vet 0.0 people

there is currently no reason for the next goonswarm to exist and begin a drive into 0.0 to shake things up. This is besides the problem it's impossible thanks to another number of botched CCP decisions that make it so much harder for newbies to challenge the defending superpowers. the failure of 0.0 to provide a real benefit to members of alliances means why the hell should new people enter? the drive to capture space is the drive to capture moons, which benefit the alliance only (or the alliance leaders), but the common goon can't make all that much more money from ratting, mining, or any of the casual isk making things than he could mission-running in empire. how does the next newbie alliance looking to break into 0.0 manage to convince enough people its worth it?

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#76 - 2011-10-17 22:32:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
really the one thing that needs to be nerfed (but never will be) in empire is level 4 missions: they set the minimum income level you need for 0.0 to be worth it so high that it can't be met. nothing else in empire comes close to running level 4 missions in virtual safety: it's just not worth bothering killing mission runners in t2 fits in ravens even if you want to just for the fun of it. ice miners are more at risk than missioners and they make less than a fifth of what mission runners make

0.0 should be buffed rather than empire flat nerfed, but level4s have been a huge mistake and need to go, they're the only thing in highsec so out of whack that it hurts efforts to balance 0.0

highsec incursions might be a problem, dunno, but at least those force cooperation and may allow proto-corps to form

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#77 - 2011-10-17 22:34:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
also obviously you need to fix the horrible newbie-unfriendly and unfun sov mechanics: bring back tower warfare on planets just don't make them fueled, so contesting sov is a tug-of-war rather than pushing a rock up a hill

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Psychophantic
#78 - 2011-10-17 22:45:38 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
level4s have been a huge mistake and need to go

highsec incursions might be a problem


Roll

Oh hai thar goon.
Kengutsi Akira
Doomheim
#79 - 2011-10-17 22:51:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Kengutsi Akira
Ingvar Angst wrote:
Lharanai wrote:

All said, thanks, its not 0.0 vs High Sec, its hardcore vs casual, whatever you do one faction will be unhappy


What CCP needs to do is figure out how to make a "grass is greener" scenario, realizing that removing the grass from high sec is cheating. Thing is... your carebear types won't be going to null simply because they prefer safer space. It's who they are, and if you make changes to the game that push them too far outside their comfort zones they're more likely to stop playing than they are to go where they're not comfortable, and not happy at being forced to move.

So here's the real problem... to get more people into null space you actually need to make is safer. However, if you make it safer, you're effectively killing null space. It's an unenviable task. However, taking things away from high sec/ wormholes, etc. will not push people into null. It'll just push them to other games.


Hardcore server
Casual server

Sebero Sinak wrote:

Whenever I hear the lame "you got no balls" I roll my eyes , i think you need to understand not everyone wants a second job playing Eve.


Yes, I have a first job thanks very much, I dont want to have to PAY to "play" at a second one.

Thomas Orca wrote:


It's not a conspiracy if I believe it. Really guise, really really reals. Goons are out to destroy a game they have put years into.


lol ignorance is bliss I guess
Have you ever seen these guys in any other games? Do you know what they pretty much only join games to do? Break them.
Here is no different

"Is it fair that CCP can get away with..." :: checks ownership on the box ::

Yes

Herping yourDerp
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#80 - 2011-10-17 22:57:39 UTC
i'l move to 0.0 soon as small corps/alliances can move there, and survive without paying absurd ammounts of rent or getting attacked every 2 seconds

if they continue to nerf high sec it will do nothing but hurt the game because people will simply quit.