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Outside Corp Logi ship assistnace concordable
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The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#1 - 2013-04-12 08:52:19 UTC
New Idea.

Make any and all LOGI ship assistance that is outside a specific corp a concordable offence. No one cares about flags.
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2013-04-12 09:19:41 UTC
Please biomass

...

The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#3 - 2013-04-12 09:24:30 UTC
All logistics ships must be concorded if they are not in the attacking or attacked corp. If they are outside the corp, they must be concorded upon the repairing of any ship outside their corp or alliance.
TheSkeptic
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-04-12 09:38:11 UTC
Still choose not to supply any reasoning... Roll

Perhaps you could detail reasons why this should happen? currently it makes no sense other than you just lost a ship to someone with a ooc logi and rushed to the forums mashing the post button.

...

The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#5 - 2013-04-12 09:52:57 UTC
TheSkeptic wrote:
Still choose not to supply any reasoning... Roll

Perhaps you could detail reasons why this should happen? currently it makes no sense other than you just lost a ship to someone with a ooc logi and rushed to the forums mashing the post button.


Any logi ships not in the same corp or alliance, supporting any ship in logostics should be concorded instead of getting a flag. Flaggable offences mean nothing. CONCORD the logistics ships for interference and support when not in the same corp or alliance.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#6 - 2013-04-12 10:45:23 UTC
The Reaper J wrote:

Any logi ships not in the same corp or alliance, supporting any ship in logostics should be concorded instead of getting a flag. Flaggable offences mean nothing. CONCORD the logistics ships for interference and support when not in the same corp or alliance.


1. repeating the same three sentences doesn't offer much in the way of "a good argument for why this should happen".

2. suspect flag means "new target". Just because you choose to ignore it, doesn't mean others do

3. Some things to consider:

- They generally stay "far" from a fight to stay safe.
- They have between 17 (minmatar) and 22 (caldari) sensor strength, about 480mm scan res.
- They have 4-6 high slots, generally with 4 large reps (though could be 3 with a med on some fits) and cap xfers.
- They have ~40k EHP, and 70m sig radius.


Your homework is to figure out how to handle the above.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#7 - 2013-04-12 10:59:48 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
The Reaper J wrote:

Any logi ships not in the same corp or alliance, supporting any ship in logostics should be concorded instead of getting a flag. Flaggable offences mean nothing. CONCORD the logistics ships for interference and support when not in the same corp or alliance.


1. repeating the same three sentences doesn't offer much in the way of "a good argument for why this should happen".

2. suspect flag means "new target". Just because you choose to ignore it, doesn't mean others do

3. Some things to consider:

- They generally stay "far" from a fight to stay safe.
- They have between 17 (minmatar) and 22 (caldari) sensor strength, about 480mm scan res.
- They have 4-6 high slots, generally with 4 large reps (though could be 3 with a med on some fits) and cap xfers.
- They have ~40k EHP, and 70m sig radius.


Your homework is to figure out how to handle the above.


Try 4 logistics ship repairing one ship so he can win like a yellow belly sissy. All logistics ships were in NPC's or outside his current corp. Meaning, they don't care about flags. Logitics ship getting involved in fights not theirs should be concorded. If they are not in the corp or alliance that is at war or stealing and ganking, then that logistics ships are supposed to be concorded. They never got concorded.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#8 - 2013-04-12 11:33:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
The whole logistics flagging system makes no sense to me when you are in low sec: why should logi become suspect when you help fleet mate (assuming fleet mate has SS> -5 and not suspect himself)? the ideal solution should be to copy all limited engagement flags from pilot you're helping to logi. In highsec suspect flag is ok.

As it is now it cripples logi ships in anti-pirate roams...

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#9 - 2013-04-12 11:35:04 UTC
The Reaper J wrote:

Try 4 logistics ship repairing one ship so he can win like a yellow belly sissy. All logistics ships were in NPC's or outside his current corp. Meaning, they don't care about flags. Logitics ship getting involved in fights not theirs should be concorded. If they are not in the corp or alliance that is at war or stealing and ganking, then that logistics ships are supposed to be concorded. They never got concorded.


so, they get flagged to you (assuming you're at war with the first guy).

SHOOT THE ******* LOGI.

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
StrongSmartSexy
Phenix Revolution
#10 - 2013-04-12 12:08:40 UTC  |  Edited by: StrongSmartSexy
There is one scenario that needs to be looked at.
Corp infiltrators who decide to blast everything that moves in their corp can use out-of-corp Logi/RR without consequence as they will not become suspect flagged since that requires the assisted/repped target to have an LE flag (which cannot be acquired from in-corp combat/aggression).

Just remember that part of the goal of introducing Crimewatch was to eliminate or significantly hinder risk-free neutral RR, but this is one situation that remains unaffected post-change.
DeLindsay
Galaxies Fall
#11 - 2013-04-12 12:13:01 UTC
And this change would break Incursions entirely, way to think it out fail.

The Operative: "There are a lot of innocent people being killed in the air right now".

Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: "You have no idea how true that is".
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#12 - 2013-04-12 12:40:30 UTC
Try killing the logi first, otherwise stop falling for bait duels.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Velicitia
XS Tech
#13 - 2013-04-12 12:47:34 UTC
StrongSmartSexy wrote:
There is one scenario that needs to be looked at.
Corp infiltrators who decide to blast everything that moves in their corp can use out-of-corp Logi/RR without consequence as they will not become suspect flagged since that requires the assisted/repped target to have an LE flag (which cannot be acquired from in-corp combat/aggression).

Just remember that part of the goal of introducing Crimewatch was to eliminate or significantly hinder risk-free neutral RR, but this is one situation that remains unaffected post-change.



this is true ... but getting awox'd doesn't seriously happen as often as the forums would make one believe (or does it?)

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
StrongSmartSexy
Phenix Revolution
#14 - 2013-04-12 13:22:05 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
StrongSmartSexy wrote:
There is one scenario that needs to be looked at.
Corp infiltrators who decide to blast everything that moves in their corp can use out-of-corp Logi/RR without consequence as they will not become suspect flagged since that requires the assisted/repped target to have an LE flag (which cannot be acquired from in-corp combat/aggression).

Just remember that part of the goal of introducing Crimewatch was to eliminate or significantly hinder risk-free neutral RR, but this is one situation that remains unaffected post-change.



this is true ... but getting awox'd doesn't seriously happen as often as the forums would make one believe (or does it?)

It probably does not happen very regularly but the people who are aware of and use this loophole do it often.
Not exactly a top priority issue for CCP to amend but an issue nonetheless.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#15 - 2013-04-12 13:43:31 UTC
StrongSmartSexy wrote:

It probably does not happen very regularly but the people who are aware of and use this loophole do it often.
Not exactly a top priority issue for CCP to amend but an issue nonetheless.


Fair enough then.
Was just questioning it because from the forums, one doesn't necessarily get a full view of what actually happens.




One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#16 - 2013-04-12 19:10:07 UTC  |  Edited by: The Reaper J
Clearly this exploit and loop hole is not worried about by CCP, they support it. They support criminal activity. Otherwise they would have stopped it. Simple as hell.

1. Logi in corp, assists corp members = no problem.
2. Corp member in logi in alliance, helping alliance or corp member = no problem.

Logi ships OUTSIDE a corp or alliance assisting anyone that is not in their alliance or corp, should be CONCORDED. Otherwise CCP should allow combat ships outside a corp or alliance to assist without being Concorded which is not allowed.

Therefore allowing one and not the other, looks a lot like CCP is in full support of criminals and not all the players in eve. Most of you seem to forget, that the odd few new real players, not alts that join as learning how to play, but hey, who cares about flags. NO ONE. So Typical of CCP.
Drake Doe
88Th Tax Haven
#17 - 2013-04-12 19:34:18 UTC
Repping can't kill anyone therefore CONCORD doesn't care, however shooting is a completely different story. Besides when CCP wants something it's usually here to stay.

"The homogenization of EVE began when Gallente and Caldari started sharing a weapon system."---Vermaak Doe-- "Ohh squabbles ohh I love my dust trolls like watching an episode of Maury with less " Is he my Dad " but more of " My Neighbor took a dump on my lawn " good episode! pops more corn" ---Evernub--
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#18 - 2013-04-12 19:35:02 UTC
The Reaper J wrote:
Clearly this exploit and loop hole is not worried about by CCP, they support it. They support criminal activity. Otherwise they would have stopped it. Simple as hell.

1. Logi in corp, assists corp members = no problem.
2. Corp member in logi in alliance, helping alliance or corp member = no problem.

Logi ships OUTSIDE a corp or alliance assisting anyone that is not in their alliance or corp, should be CONCORDED. Otherwise CCP should allow combat ships outside a corp or alliance to assist without being Concorded which is not allowed.

Therefore allowing one and not the other, looks a lot like CCP is in full support of criminals and not all the players in eve. Most of you seem to forget, that the odd few new real players, not alts that join as learning how to play, but hey, who cares about flags. NO ONE. So Typical of CCP.



Why do you hate group content?
Z GTC
Bioxium Securities
#19 - 2013-04-12 20:00:47 UTC
I do not think Concord should get involved unless the Logi attempted to repair someone carrying out a criminal act. In which case Concord would already be arriving . "what if it was on accident?" People have those RED, YELLOW, and GREEN safety settings for a reason, use them.

Logistics are there to be the "Healer" role in EVE.

In a Duel a logistic should not be able to even lock onto the involved parties, or at the very least not initiate their reps. If this is able to be done it should be regarded as a bug and be fixed. A Duel is a specialized combat between two parties. Not two parties and whoever else feels like it.

In Open combat that is designated as "Suspect", Repairing a Suspect target should flag the one doing the repairs as suspect and free to kill as well.

Why should a Logistic Ship be killed by concord if the target they are repairing is not seen as Criminal?
The Reaper J
Kings.Guard.
#20 - 2013-04-12 20:41:50 UTC
Z GTC wrote:
I do not think Concord should get involved unless the Logi attempted to repair someone carrying out a criminal act. In which case Concord would already be arriving . "what if it was on accident?" People have those RED, YELLOW, and GREEN safety settings for a reason, use them.

Logistics are there to be the "Healer" role in EVE.

In a Duel a logistic should not be able to even lock onto the involved parties, or at the very least not initiate their reps. If this is able to be done it should be regarded as a bug and be fixed. A Duel is a specialized combat between two parties. Not two parties and whoever else feels like it.

In Open combat that is designated as "Suspect", Repairing a Suspect target should flag the one doing the repairs as suspect and free to kill as well.

Why should a Logistic Ship be killed by concord if the target they are repairing is not seen as Criminal?


Logistics ships are to be killed by concord for repping ships not in their corp or alliance. That's what i said. That should be regarded as a concordable offence. If those logi are in their corp or alliance, then there is no problem. When you got logi outside your corp then they should be shot if they rep anyone in any way that is NOT in their corp or if they are NOT in the same corp or alliance of the one they are repping. VERY SIMPLE.
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